How To Increase Your Return On Renovation (Ep264)

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Making money from renovation isn’t a simple as fixing up any old house. There are things you can do to increase your return on renovation and profit from your hard work.

Today I interview Jane Slack-Smith from The Ultimate Guide To Renovation and she shares her tips on what you can do to maximise you return on renovation in each room of the house.

Ryan: When renovating a property there are some things that will add massive profit to your renovation and there are some things that actually cost more than what you’re going to get in return. Therefore it’s important to understand what is the best way to maximize your return on renovation.

Today I have with me Jane Slack-Smith from The Ultimate Guide to Renovation who successfully completed multiple renovations herself and now train her students how to mimic what she has done and to successfully profit from renovations. We’re going to go step by step, room by room through the house and find out what can we do to add massive value and to maximize our return on renovation in each area of the house. This is a great interview and I learned a lot from Jane in this interview about what we can do in different areas and what we can do to maximize our return on renovation. So here’s my interview with Jane Slack-Smith from The Ultimate Guide To Renovation.

Ryan: Hi guys, Ryan here from onproperty.com.au your daily dose of property education and inspiration. Today I am excited to have again with me Jane Slack-Smith from The Ultimate Guide To Renovation. We’re going to be going through the nitty-gritty of renovation in this episode, talking about how to maximize your return on renovation. But we’re going to be going through each room individually – the bedrooms, the bathrooms, the kitchen and all of that sort of good stuff to find out exactly what you can do to maximize your return on renovations. Thanks so much for joining us today Jane.

Jane: My pleasure, Ryan.

Ryan: Okay, so where do we get started?  We’re going to go through room by room how do we maximize our return, but where do you think we should look at first?

Jane: I think if we start big picture, let’s start really big picture in the fact that there are many many different types of renovations. So I have what I call as my five ‘Rs’ of renovation, so I would simply get to refresh. And this is the kind of property you walk into and you see people walk out and go, “Oh my God, did you smell that? How dirty was that?” And you’re like, “oh there could be opportunity.” Sometimes it is just a good clean, that’s all the property needs. It just needs opening up the windows and airing it. Someone has been there for forty years smoking and there is stain on the ceiling, whatever, it’s a refresh. And this can be less than a $1,000.  This is the elbow grease that goes into this. So that’s my first ‘R’ of renovation.

Then I have repair. This is where you’re going to have to pull out your toolbox. And we’re talking about you are fixing things up. There might be some doors hanging off the kitchen. There might be a little bit of painting intact. You might paint the bathtub for instance, give it a clean look, and put on a new shower curtain, new toilet seat, and steam-clean the carpet.  We’re not talking about a huge expense. We’re talking about the fact that you need to be doing some repairs to brighten and lighten it up. And this is often what people do between tenancies as well. So that is repairs.

Then we move on to my favourite which is kind of a combination of repair and the refresh into the rejuvenate.  And the rejuvenate is where we’re talking about bathroom, kitchens and we will get into a bit later where you can spend your money.  But it is around new window coverings, painting the property, sanding the floor boards, doing some landscaping. And that’s where rule of thumb people talk about around 10% of the value of the property is spent on that cosmetic rejuvenation.

And then you have the restructure.

Ryan: Rejuvenation, is that what a lot of people call cosmetic renovation?

Jane: Yes, absolutely. And sometimes you talk to people and they go, “Oh, they say you should spend 10% of the value of the property on your renovation.” I did it for $1,000. It’s all crap. Well, the actual fact is they’ll probably just do a refresh or a repair; they didn’t replace the kitchen/bathroom cupboards and everything.

So once we have that rejuvenation or cosmetic renovation we move on to the restructure which is just restructuring.  And we’re talking about let’s push over the back of the house and put out that nice open plan living space. So that’s the structural and that is, depending on who you speak to, 35-40% of the value the property would be spent on that structural renovation. Timing, at least three to six months and then if you got a Council that’s not so happy, then it could be 12-24 months just getting the approvals to do that.

And then we have the revamp.  The revamp is one that I now have moved into and it’s something that I think a lot of landlords and property owners forget. And this is to go back to your original portfolio and see what you can do. So if I’ve got forty grand saved up forty grand win full or whatever rather than I going, “ah, gosh, I know the median house price is $600,000 I can’t get anything there, I could possibly buy [inaudible 4:58] stamp duty” or you could go back to your current portfolio and go, “well maybe I could spend – .”  Say for instance I’ve got a tiny little terrace in Darlington in New South Wales in Sydney that was an old workers cottage and it’s a tiny little two storey. Now, for $30,000 I can actually push an attic bedroom on top, sacrifice a little bit of the second bedroom on the second floor. And for the six weeks of work that it takes there I need one week of internal work upsetting the tenants. Five weeks of it can happen on the outside and that $30,000 little attic bedroom could add $100,000 in value. So a lot of people don’t look at that revamp.

Ryan: Yes, that’s a very good one that people should think about once they grow their portfolio and go back to things. So at a high level there’s a lot of different ways that we can renovate. I guess we should start on the outside because that’s where people are going to be looking at when they first enter the property. What are some of the ways to maximize your return on investment on the outside?

Jane:  Well, there are so many on that Hewitt note so I apologize for reading all of these. But I think that as you mentioned, the outside, there are many things that people forget. They forget that street appeal. So maybe instead of replacing the roof maybe repainting the roof. I have a demonstration of a cosmetic renovation that I’ve done in some videos that are coming up. The roof is repainted for $1,000 to $3,000 dollars. It gives it a little bit more maintenance to look much better. We didn’t need to replace it.

There are things like rendering outside walls we’ve all seen driving down the street to those horrible red brick suburbs. Rendering some of those properties and spending maybe $5,000 to $20,000 depending on what you have. Even just doing the front of the property can add a lot of value.  Fencing, having some nice fencing or even repairing and propping up the small fencing so that it’s got a few more years in it. Painting the concrete on the driveway, cleaning the driveway and maybe repairing the garage – the garage roof, the [inaudible 7:21] came with the house, so everything looks consistent especially if it was post-built.

And just doing things that make things look coordinated. Painting the exterior of the house and the fence so that they match. And just simple things that I would do and add value is adding maybe pines or fast-growing plants that don’t need a lot of work or maintenance by your tenants but are going to give maybe going to give some privacy in the back, privacy the front that are going to look good. Therefore for me it’s about adding some value externally without breaking the bank. Because you really want to be spending your money where the big-ticket big bang factors are and that is the kitchen and the bathroom.

Ryan: Okay. So with the outside the goal I guess from what I hear you are saying is to get a very clean and unified look to the front of the house. So I guess it looks like it’s been thought out and it looks like someone has been taking care of the property and it’s in good shape. Would you agree with that?

Jane: Absolutely. People make the decision within the first 30 seconds of pulling up to a house whether they’re going to rent it or buy it, so I’m looking at first impressions.

Ryan: Yes. Well even now people are making their decisions on the internet just rolling through the listings and so if the front of your house doesn’t look very good from the listing then they just keep strolling and they wouldn’t even see it any at all.  The internet is therefore definitely changing things there.  So you say the big ticket items are your kitchen and bathroom, which comes as no surprise to me as it is always said that the kitchen is the heart of the home and the bathroom is the area that needs to be done.

Let’s start with the kitchen because that’s what I hear is the most important.  What are some ways that people can maximize their return on their renovation in the kitchen area?

Jane: We’ve talked about the repaint or repair or remove kind of strategy when I’m looking at things. Often and especially the lower price point of  houses less than $450,000 I would be definitely looking at maybe the repair or the paint option for fixing things.  So in the kitchen it might just be painting the bench tops, removing your old fashion handles or removing the – I think we talked about your mom’s/dad’s place with the outdated kind of wooden trim vinyl – moving the old fan that outdates the kitchen. Maybe taking a couple of the doors off the top of the kitchen and putting in the glass face doors. You know, just adding a lift to it, maybe just adding a nice glass breakfast prospect.

And you don’t have to go and spend a fortune or anything you can get big [inaudible 10:08] these days. If we’re talking a high-end kitchen type renovation I’ve had people doing structural kitchens renovations and I’ve showed them how to save like $40,000 by not custom making it kitchen but by making the prepack design kit size fit into the space that they have. So customizing kitchens in the top end is real expensive. And a lot of people, once again, they get emotional, they want to put in that state of the art hub and pizza cooking thing and – I don’t know, special type of cooking and whatever. But if you’re looking for tenants then you’re looking for something that’s going to be maintained easily, something that you can get repaired quickly. You’re not looking at the expensive European stuff. You’re looking at the whirlpools maybe that you can get any whirlpool technician out that can fix the thing quite easily.  So  for me it’s around people looking for cleanliness, they’re looking for large storage space and bench space and they’re just looking for a layout that’s they can work with. So you don’t need to over design the kitchen.  But give it some wow factor. If the market wants season stones give them season stones but don’t pay for seasoned stones if the market is looking for a high end lemonex.

Ryan: Yes. So with the kitchen it really just depends on what you’re doing in the kitchen whether it’s to rent it or whether it’s to sell it and depending on the area of the market that you’re in. So if you’re in a lower price range then it’s probably not worth spending thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars redoing the kitchen, but it’s better to just give it a paint.  How would someone determined whether its best – let’s say they are in the middle range like around what we talked about in the first interview we did with [inaudible 12:00] below, but if they’re buying like 20% below the median price of an area trying to get the above median price of an area, how do they know whether they should just paint the kitchen or whether it actually needs to be taken out and put in a new one, whether that be custom or whether that be one from [inaudible 12:17] or where ever you buy that one?

Jane: One of the things that I do is that for every 10 properties I look at in an area I then look at a property that is renovated to the standard that I think that the median property should be at. So I’m trying to see if the fixtures and finishes that that property has already got there and I’m listening to what people are saying as they’re walking through. If they are really excited about the fact that there is a little door in the bench top that you can drop you your rubbish into the bin below, that might be something I consider. But if we are walking around a western suburb area in most capital cities where we’re talking about a nice home or unit for a family that is after functionality and maybe some security, etc, I’m not going to be putting in a nice little bench top hole in my nice bench top. I’m probably going to be painting my bench top and spending some money on some security buzz for them. You know, they walking and going, “Oh, this is a new place that has security buzz.” Therefore I’m looking at, “Oh, it’s got a carport, we really needed the carport and none of the other properties have a carport.”

So I’m trying to find what’s fit for the market. If you have any doubts go and find out what your competitors are doing because you’re going to be on the market against them at some stage. But you’re also going to be on the market against those that are renting and that’s why I also go and have a look at the properties they’re renting at the moment at the rental price that I want and the standard of the property that I expect to have and see what they’re talking about.

Ryan:  Yes. So it comes back to tailoring your renovation to the market and what the market wants. And you can do that by seeing other properties. I like your strategy in going to these open houses and rather than looking at the property in intense detail actually listening to the people that are looking at the property and hearing what they’re saying because that’s just such a good way to get a read on the market. If they’re saying, “oh, you know, the other house we looked at had such a better kitchen,” then you can get an idea of what people want and yes just such good recon work, very sneaky.

Jane: And I even use the real estate agents as well. I’m all about sneaky. But going to the real estate agent in an open home for a property and saying, “look I’m looking to buy in the area,” instead of me going chin chin, okay here I have someone I can sell to. So what are people after? Because I noticed this house has [inaudible 14:40] these guys, you know, media room was a complete waste of time; everyone’s talking about converting it into the baby’s bedroom. It’s like “okay, media room is not necessary.” So you can actually use the real estate agents. They are there; you may be buying off them. They’re going to be writing your name down and if you tell them exactly what you’re after they could actually become a really great source of, you know, “Hey this one hasn’t gone on the market yet but I know you’re after three bedroom fibro with the potential to add a fourth bedroom under the same floor plan. This is coming on next week.  You want to have a look at it?”  You’re like, “yes.”

Ryan: Awesome that’s good. So the kitchen covers that.  What about bathroom which you say kind of goes in line with the kitchen as one the most important rooms of the house?

Jane: This drives me crazy because the bathrooms are often half the size or less of the kitchen. They cost about the same amount to renovate because if the waterproofing and the [inaudible 15:34] – how many trades you need there to get a good bathroom. So I’m always looking at saving money and maximizing my return. So once again don’t replace if you can repaint or repair. So it’s simple things like painting the bathtub, changing the taps, maybe changing the vanity. Sourcing vanities you might go to one manufacturer that is selling a vanity for $1,200 and for the same manufacturer there’s an eBay supplier called Reno D and they have an eBay shop and they actually have vanities for $200 – $300 that are coming from the same place that Reese is selling theirs for $1200 from the same factory in China.

So maximize your return, get the bling that might impress people but make it functional. So simple things like I’m looking at tenants I’m thinking oh they don’t clean that often so I’m not going to have mosaic tiles that they have to clean the grout. I’m not going to have a vanity that’s on legs. I’m going to make it easy for them to get the broom and vacuum under it and have it just wall hung.  Therefore I’m not looking at things that could cost me money by hiding the toilet behind the wall because if something goes wrong I then have to get the wall off to fix the toilet. So I’m looking at things that is either going to help me down the line and minimize my maintenance costs. Give me the wow factor that I need without overdoing it.

Ryan: Yes.  I remember like painting the bath tub and stuff like that. I’ve had someone come round to my place when I used to rent (Danny Billy) and the bathtub just was all flaking off and he just came and painted it and sealed it and did everything and they didn’t have to rip anything out or replace anything. And I thought that was genius. And I’ve often painted tiles to make a massive difference in the bathroom. We lived in this house that was the bathroom – we called it the winnerbago bathroom because it didn’t have that proper walls, it had like blue like beige blue tiger striped walls that you think you’d find in like a camper band and it was just terrible but we painted it with a bathroom white paint and it just made the biggest difference to the bathroom without costing us thousands and thousands of dollars. So people should always consider what they can keep and I guess up-cycle or whatever you want to call it and improve before they go ahead ripping everything out and changing everything.

Jane: If you do rip it out maybe you can sell it as well.

Ryan: Sell it on eBay or Gumtree or something like that because then you could reuse that money to buy an awesome bath spa.

Jane: I’m someone who does that. You know, I [inaudible 18:28] and I subsequently bought it. But there was something about the second shower and bathroom at the back in the laundry section that I was kind of like there was something weedy here and it had those black and white kind of tiles that kind of look like something a jester would wear in court county, black and white. Anyhow, I was looking and there was something weedy and they weren’t tiles, the landlord had actually got a vinyl floor covering and actually just like stapled it on the wall and that was the back of the shower. I was like there is something wrong – you just walked past black and white tiles. No, it’s vinyl wall coverings.  So you never know what you’re going to find.

Ryan: What about layout in a bathroom? Is layout important? Are there certain things that people want? Or again is it do your research in the market, go and look at other properties and see what works and what’s good there?

Jane: For me, I’m trying to maximize my money so I want to have something that creates value or is functional and looks good. But often I think you get into that mentality of I’ve got to pull it all out and if you pull it all out you can then do the layout that you want. I often used the layouts that I come across because I don’t want to have to rerun the plumbing like pull off the wall to put the toilet in a different spot or something. I’ve done simple changes of layouts in rehanging the door opening up into the bathroom from one side to the other side to actually give it more room to go in. Something as simple as that, getting a bit of builders bag, filling in the holes, rehanging the wall and do on the other side actually opened up this bathroom amazingly.

I have used it for high end renovations. I’ve used little twilights to add lights as well, down lights. But if you look in the low end renovation the layout itself I’d say try to work with the layout that you have and maximize what you have and it might be – there is always the conversation should you have a separate shower and bath.  Find out what the market wants. Go out when you’re looking at the rental properties and you’re overhearing what people are saying and they are going, “Oh gosh I hate it when the bath and the shower are together.” If that’s an objection you can override that but if this is typical of the area don’t go and complicate things for yourself.

Ryan: Yes, because that’s the thing. Every renter that’s going out isn’t just looking at your property they’re looking at others as well. And if every other property has a shower over a bath even if you have a shower over a bath, they are not going to go, “oh you got a shower over a bath I’m not going to rent your property,” because if they go anywhere else that’s what they can get anyway.

Jane: Exactly. And the reality is that often you’re going to have to sacrifice the bath for the shower. So if you’re going to remove something you are in a small space you can’t have two separate things anyhow so it’s like either the bath or the shower and then all of a sudden you’re the only house in the street without a bath, the family of three walking through going where the kids are going to have a bath.

Ryan: I have actually looked at many properties as a renter and it has been like, “no bath, no, thank you.” Because I’ve got kids and kids like to have bath and it’s like that is the bliss time as a parent, put them in the bath and there’s bubbles and they’re so happy and I’m so happy. I’m not sacrificing a bath.

Jane: My poor son has lived in so many houses without baths but now it is the most exciting thing when he goes to his grandparents’ or aunt’s house, he’s like, “Oh can I have a bath?” It’s not like, can we go and say hi. His first thing is in the bath and he stays there for an hour or two. He is eleven years old.

Ryan: Yes. We downsized to like a two bedroom house and we now upsized again because we’re having another one but we had this bath but it wasn’t actually a bath it was like a shower but it had like a little basin and the kids called it the puppy bath but it still served as a purpose for us as the kids could have baths but we couldn’t. Okay, so bathroom because in most cases we’re probably going to leave it the same we try and reuse as much as we can. If we are adding things we want to get that wow factor but for a good price so look around, shop around, look on eBay, check out that Reno D or whoever it was that you mentioned. I think that basically covers the bathroom.

What about bedrooms? Because all I ever see people do in bedrooms is just paint the walls in a neutral colour. Is that all that is expected from a bedroom?

Jane: I’m happy with that. Things like if it comes to painting just choose some colours that are neutral and inoffensive. I think that whites, a white kitchen is easy as people can put their own colours specials on it.  If you’re going to save money and time I’d be looking to see a single colour throughout the house. I might not use the same colour on most of my renovations. And I put in a tiny little tin of the paint – you know the keep board under your kitchen?

Ryan: Yes.

Jane: I put everything in the keep board, so spare tiles – I pull it off – spare tiles, a bit of paint, paintbrush. So if I have to run by a property between tenancies in interstate I can fly in, kick off the keep board, pull out my stuff – it’s all there so that I can fix things up with this little kit.  The antique white USA I used throughout most properties.

 Ryan: Everyone uses that one, everyone – antique white USA.

Jane: If you do make sure you don’t use antique white because it’s like eight strengths deeper in colour so it has to be USA. We’ve tried to do the spray painting and I’ve got to tell you that we’re not good at it.  Some people are good at it.  I don’t think it gives a very professional finish. But if you’re looking at high-end property I wouldn’t be spray-painting but maybe spray painting the ceiling and walls or getting a painter who is experienced in doing that can save you some money. Potentially, I think there are things that you might accent a colour with, like there is a quarter strength colour code hug bristle. It’s a nice complement to antique white USA. It’s just to be honest boring neutral colours.

In the bedrooms I’d be looking at maybe recarpeting and I would go to get cheap end of roll carpets or discount carpets or carpets online or carpet auctions or greys on line. I’ve a lot for different products as well. Sometimes the carpeting places have had very big developments done and the developments have some ends of rolls and you can pick up some really cheap carpet. So I’m also looking at window coverings.  If the window is for the bedrooms or at at the front the house and for maximum street appeal I might even spend $1,000 on putting plantation shutters in to get that kind of wow factor. But otherwise, I’d be looking at maybe just simple blinds. I personally use 16ml golden oak timber varnish and some I get from Spotlight. I joined as a Spotlight member. I get my 10% off or whatever and then once every six weeks they do a two for one offer and it’s on different blinds and when they do the 16ml I go and pick up some. But I’ve got these timber blinds, they have been on properties for ten years and I’m still waiting to replace them. Nothing could destroy them.

Ryan: Yes, they do the job. I remember a really good tip because often as we talked about people get emotional and they want to add splashes of colour to the bedroom, bright blue for a boy or pink for a girl or something like that or put some wallpaper as a feature on. And I thought a really good idea was even if you’re painting it we recommend you paint it in a neutral colour but if you want to add some flair to it put some more paper in a frame or put a canvas on the wall or something like that. So it adds that colour and adds that vibrancy to the room but someone walks in and they go yes, I know I can take that painting off or that painting won’t be there when I buy it so you still got a neutral so you appeal to the most people but then it can still look great with that flair and without alienating people away from your property.

Jane: Which brings me to you kind of like the end point as well. One of the things that we don’t talk about is staging a property. And this is often just for people who are looking to sell. So getting a professional stature during with as you say with the beautiful paintings, etc.  And you know I think that pre property that I’ve renovated we lived in there to save money. So whenever I look at the before and after photos, in the after photos I’ve still got the old _doggy  lounge. Well not doggy lounge.  I’ve got our lounge over the years gone through all these properties like, “oh and here’s the lounge room.”

But staging a property I actually approached a staging company and said look I need to stage this property for a valuer. A valuer is going to be walking in for ten minutes and they will be looking through this property. I want them to walk in and go, “Wow, imagine that this is exactly what I perceived through all my research comparable styles of what it should look like,” tick, tick, yes.” And they’re not looking into an empty house. They are walking into a house that has furniture in and they are going right in that little lounge at that fire place for the red glass wine, at the end of the day kind of thing. And you speak to valuers and they always say, “We are not influenced by furniture in staging or whatever.” But there is an emotional human response that says walking through an empty house and you see it yourself when you go to openings and inspections. You’re more intrigued and interested when there’s someone kind of living there.

And so staging a property [inaudible 28:18] and there are 10 stages and then you don’t get it. We stage for a six-week campaign, and I was like, “No you don’t get what I want.” And I finally got on to this guy and he’s like, “Oh yes I got it, I’ve got twenty seven houses, I staged them all.” I asked for the valuer and he said, “I’ve got it, look our expense is picking up the furniture and dropping it off you can have it for six weeks I’m going to charge the same amount. I’m like, “No, I kind of got tenants I want to look through the property as well and they may get some photos for that.” And I think it was like two-and-a-half thousand dollars or something and this value of this property multitudes by added value and I got money out to go and do another property. The two and a half thousand – well spent.

Ryan: Yes, so it’s worth it. Even for a valuer it’s worth getting that staging at the end just to make it look awesome. I’m not going into houses that are empty, all the blinds are shut, it’s dark like, you don’t feel like this is a house you want to live in. But you go in there looks like someone’s been living in it. Someone pristine and super clean has been living in it.

Jane: I would do that for high end properties. I wouldn’t do that for low-end properties. Like two-and-a-half grand in a low end property is going got get you [inaudible 29:22]  so it could get you a new bathroom tidy up and kitchen tidy up. So two and a half grand  wouldn’t waste that on staging, it’d be at a high end property like 650 or above.

Ryan: Yes, awesome. I know that we have been going for a while so I’m going to end it there.  We will be talking more about renovation and more about Jane’s strategy of buying two properties, doing one renovation and getting a million dollars in the bank in an upcoming webinar that we had together on the 4th of March. You can check out that webinar, it’s absolutely free by going to www.onproperty.com.au/reno and that’s just a pure content webinar. We won’t be selling anything at the end of that.

Jane, when we’re talking that renovations in this upcoming webinar, what sort of things will we be touching on?

Jane: Well, I’m going to be sharing my strategy that it basically shows that adding renovation to your property investment strategy and manufacturing wealth by doing that and manufacturing equity allows you to kind of springboard into the next property or springboard towards your goals sooner. You can push up the rent so you’re getting more money to help you hold the property. But you also have the capacity to get the [inaudible 30:35]. I really want to show how everyday Australians just for two properties, one renovation could put a million bucks in the bank in 15 years.  And I tell my story of how I was able to change my life by being a renovator.

Ryan: Yes. And I really like the idea that it’s just two properties, not 10, it’s not 30, it’s not 130 it’s just two.

Jane: Doesn’t want it to be complicated.

Ryan: Yes. Just makes it simple. Let’s make it simple for people. It doesn’t have to be a super convoluted and buy this and flip that and then do all this weird strategy stuff.

Jane: And then throw in a granny flat and buy in the US and near [inaudible 31:09] and mining towns. You’re like, “Oh my gosh if I just had two properties in the right location going up in value I would manufacture wealth.” You don’t have to worry about that, get on with life.

Ryan: Yes, and I think that’s what most people want. Most people want to get on with life. They want to have something that’s building up for their retirement, building up to  help replace their income. They don’t necessarily want to be super fandangled in the way that they invest. The just want to know that’s going to work. I love how risk-averse you are. Because I think there’re a lot of people out there who are saying, yes invest in this, you’ll get this massive returns, but there’s not that many people out there saying, look I’m a risk averse investor, I’m just like everyone else, let’s learn what not to do and not do that, rather than just saying what is some flash in the painting that will make you a million bucks overnight. So I really appreciate that you’re out there spreading that word and spreading that message because I don’t think there’s enough people doing it.

So thank you so much for your time. Any closing words before we end this interview?

Jane: No. I look forward to speaking to people on our webinar and yes bring your questions because I’d be happy to answer them.

Ryan: Alright.  And I look forward to that. Again that’s on the 4th March and you can check it out by going to www.onproperty.com.au/reno. And it is a limited seating webinar that technology only allows us to do a certain number of seats so we’ll likely fill up. So please get in quickly if you’re interested. Alright Jane, thank you so much and I’ll see you on the webinar on the 4^th of March.

Jane: Okay, see you Ryan.

Ryan: Well, I hope that you enjoyed that interview with Jane Slack Smith from the Ultimate Guide To Renovation. I certainly did and I always learn something whenever I talk to Jane. And I’m super stoked to get her on and to do these lessons and to do the upcoming webinar that I have with her on the 4th of March. If you want to check out that webinar, we are going to be talking more about Jane’s strategy. Two properties, one renovation and a million dollars in the bank is a strategy that I love because it just sounds so achievable for the average person who doesn’t want to buy a hundred properties. And so I’m looking forward to sharing that. We’ve already had a whole bunch of registrations for that webinar. It’s coming up very same soon. Check it out, it’s on the 4th of March which is actually my daughter’s birthday but it’ll be in the night time so she’ll be asleep anyway.  But go to www.onproperty.com.au/reno before the 4^th of March to sign up for that. If you’re watching this after the 4th of March in 2015 well then go ahead and check it out anyway because I’m going to have something special for you over there.

I have really enjoyed this series with Jane Slack Smith talking about renovation, how to choose the right house, we talked about the biggest mistakes that renovators make and we also talked about how to maximize your return on renovation. I have learned a lot from these interviews and I hope that you have learned a lot as well.

So until the upcoming webinar or until I see next remember stay positive.