Why is it that so few people purchase more than 1 investment property? What makes successful property investors stand out from the rest?
You’ve heard the statistics out there that the majority of investors buy just one investment property, if that. You know, very few people ever go on to property number 2, property number 3.
It’s like a minute percentage of people above and beyond 5 investment properties. However, as you’re probably aware, the more investment properties you buy, the better chance you have of achieving your financial goals. So, purchasing just one unlikely to help you achieve your financial goals. It could help you, but unlikely to achieve it by itself.
Ben has purchased a whole bunch of properties. He’s definitely over the 5 mark and he helps clients every single day to purchase their first property, their second property. He’s got clients that have purchased 4 or 5 properties or more through him. And so, he knows a little bit about staying motivated past the first investment.
That’s what we wanted to talk about today. Because we don’t want you guys to get stuck on property number 1 and not actually achieve your financial goals.
Ryan: Hey, Ben, thanks for coming on today.
Ben: Thanks for having me.
Ryan: Okay. So, you would definitely agree with me that most people probably just purchase the first property and then for some reason or another, gets stuck and don’t move on to property number 2. Is that right?
Ben: Definitely, yup.
Ryan: I’m guessing you would see it all the time with clients of yours and the would-be clients of yours as well who would push through that mark.
I thought it would be good to talk about what makes the difference between someone who purchases just one – and you know they’ve got one investment property that’s great – versus someone who can move on to the 2nd one, the 3rd one and actually go ahead and achieve their goals?
We talked about it before the video, but we’ve got 5 different things that you think categorize that investor who’s going to move forward towards their goals. Do we want to get into that and talk about it?
Ben: Yeah, definitely.
Ryan: The first thing that we talked about was this concept that the people who are really successful and the people who would build really large portfolios are the ones who actually – as soon as they purchase a property or even through the process of purchasing one property, they’re already thinking about the next property.
Do you want to talk a bit about those people?
Ben: Yeah, definitely. From the trend that I’ve seen and one of the great things about doing what we both get to do is we both get to speak so many investors every single month. And so, the number 1 thread between the people that own 5+ properties and the people that own 0-1 property is the people who own 5 properties are constantly checking that next deal.
It’s crazy, it’s almost like a bit of an addiction for some of the people we speak to. And I was exactly the same, I still probably am that’s why I do it full time.
That constant desire to move and achieve this goal and then as soon as I’ve achieved that goal, or even before it most of the time, when I’m talking to these guys, they’re talking about, “Oh, after I get this deal, I’m going to go out and get one that looks like this.” So, it’s that hunger and it’s that ability to stay hungry post achieving what other people think is “financial success” or “property success” and realizing that you’re definitely on your way, but you’re not quite where you want to be yet so you’ve got to keep going.
Ryan: Yeah. And I thought of all the things that we discuss and kind of discovered about the people who actually push forward, I thought this was the biggest one and the biggest thing that people can easily do to change their chance of actually purchase a second property. Because what we do see so many people do is they go out there and they work really hard to save a deposit, to find the right property and to invest in one property and then they’re like, “Hah…” They take a breather.
Ben: I’m done.
Ryan: Yeah. It’s such a stressful experience to go through and then they get caught up in managing that property or analyzing that property every 3 months to see how it’s performing. They get so focused on the property that they do own that they forget to go out there and look for other properties.
I can understand why some people do this. Because, obviously, a lot of people can afford to buy one. But then, they can’t automatically afford to buy the second one. So, they kind of take a breather and step back from the property market because they need to wait for their first property to go up in value.
How do you think people like that can continue to stay motivated and continue to want to stay in the market and rid this sort of stuff if they can’t actually borrow and invest in the next deal yet?
Ben: Yeah. That’s a really good point. Obviously, as an investor myself, when I finished university, I think I bought 2 [inaudible 4:27] properties in the first 2 years of leaving the university. And that was a slogan. When I got to the end of that second purchase, I was just like so emotionally, intellectually drained. Because it’s a long drawn out process. It takes
It takes time to identify markets, time to identify a strategy, time to physically inspect properties. And then, after you find one, you’ve got to go all through this stuff with solicitors and mortgage brokers and property managers and building and pest inspectors and all that stuff. So it’s kind of a lot and by the end of it, I’ve personally found I’m never able to maintain my level of motivation.
What I’ve found over the last 7 years is that – I call it periods of high intensity. Like HIIT training almost in exercise where you go really hard for an interval and then you just have break. What I’ve tended to do, I didn’t realize my pattern, but my pattern is every 18 months, I go really hard an buy 2 or 3 properties. And then, I just don’t even think about property for the next 18 months at all. And then, for 18 months, I just go really hard again.
And then, I just don’t even think about property for the next 18 months at all. And then, for 18 months, I just go really hard again.
It’s hard to stay switched on all the time. We’re not professional athletes, we’re not being coached. We don’t have people constantly [inaudible 5:37] in our environment. It’s human nature to just do something and then get over it for a little while and then go back.
But to answer your actual question, coming back to the beginning and going, “Okay, these were the steps that I’ve put in place to buy property 1 or property 2.” What were those steps? It was probably identifying a budget and the savings goal. Identifying a strategy to move forward and the next type of purchase. Once you’ve done that, you can put
Identifying a strategy to move forward and the next type of purchase. Once you’ve done that, you can put a [inaudible 6:04] for 12 months from now, 18 months from now, I’m going to have $20,000 saved. And that $20,000 on top of the equity that the property generates over that period of time is going to enable me to move forward again. So, knowing where you want to be and knowing the small activities you do on a weekly basis or monthly basis to get there is definitely the key and having that plan.
Ryan: Yeah. I think that’s such a good thing because, yes, you may not be able to go out there and look at deals straightaway. You may not be able to negotiate property and all of this sort of stuff. But, you probably go back to where you were at the start and to say, “Okay, what was my original strategy?” – which we talked about in the last episode. What was that strategy? And what I need to do now in order to purchase my second property in year whatever it may be. Maybe it’s in 12 months, 2 years, whatever it is, and to start actually working towards that. So, yeah, you’ll have an emotional slump after the purchase and you probably don’t want to look at another property at realestate.com.au for quite some time.
What was that strategy? And what I need to do now in order to purchase my second property in year whatever it may be. Maybe it’s in 12 months, 2 years, whatever it is, and to start actually working towards that. So, yeah, you’ll have an emotional slump after the purchase and you probably don’t want to look at another property at realestate.com.au for quite some time.
But, I think now, after you’ve purchased the first property, it’s a good time to sit down and to say, “Okay, I have this strategy.” Property 1 is probably different from the exact numbers that you had planned in your strategy. You’re like, “Now that I’ve purchased this, I know the purchase price, I know how much rent is coming in, etc. Now that I’ve got this property, okay, what’s my strategy to purchase property number 2?” It’s going to change slightly from your original strategy. So sit down, I guess, do your strategy session again and then, try and work out what can you do to move you towards that.
Now that I’ve got this property, okay, what’s my strategy to purchase property number 2?” It’s going to change slightly from your original strategy. So sit down, I guess, do your strategy session again and then, try and work out what can you do to move you towards that.
I love what you said about people trying to save an extra $20,000 that they can put with the equity. Because sometimes, your property is not going to grow like you want and so, you will need to do your own work. I think, by continuing to save and to look towards your goal, I think that’s a great strategy to increase your chances of actually getting to property number 2.
I think, by continuing to save and to look towards your goal, I think that’s a great strategy to increase your chances of actually getting to property number 2.
Ben: That’s a really good point because sometimes you buy and the market just does nothing. And sometimes you buy and the market just goes nuts and you had no idea it was going to happen. As you get more sophisticated, you can time those things and understand them better and buy at more strategic times. But the reality is, we’re looking at long term average. In long term averages mean nothing on a month to month or a quarterly or even a half yearly basis.
I found when I first started to invest, I was on realestate.com.au every week after I bought the property looking at the values and was getting upset because nothing had changed. Now, 7 years later, I literally look at the property once every 12 months and go, “Okay, this is what it’s done.” and that gives me a better idea of what’s really going on and more motivation because I can see results.
Ryan: Yeah. I think that’s the thing. So many people would just micro analysing their properties. I know, I do this with my website that are running my business. Looking at it everyday to see how much money it’s made or whatever. It probably doesn’t move that fast. There’s no point doing that.
Ben: Nothing happens in property in a week.
Ryan: Yeah. I think that’s good to move on to one of the other points, is that you found that people who do move on to the next property, they’re kind of like addicted to the process. But, one of the things you noticed is that a lot of these people get early results in their properties. So, they might buy under value and, therefore, the property is worth extra or they might do some sort of renovation to the property to increase the value or do something to get those early results. Can we talk about that a little bit?
Ben: Yeah. I think [inaudible 9:31] because I come from a competitive sports background, I think about everything in life like fitness. I know that’s not relevant to most people probably listening, nor myself much these days.
Ryan: Well, I’m not very fit.
Ben: You know when you start surfing or you start playing a sport or you start training and nothing happens for a while and all of sudden, it’s like, “Whoa!” Someone comments on how good you look or how much your surfing’s improved or how much better you’re doing. You go from B grade to A grade or whatever.
I think about the exact same thing from a property perspective. Can you ask the question again quickly? Just frame it.
Ryan: I was just talking about having those early results because that continues to motivate people.
Ben: Can I just go on with that spiel?
Ryan: Yeah, just keep going, dude. I’m not editing.
Ben: No! Those early results are so key for property. When I first used to buy property, I wouldn’t get those early results because I was sort of buying it market value and I was just hoping it would increase in value. But now, we know the things that we both know where you can be strategic and buy under market value. You can find a 3-bedroom house and renovate it or add a bedroom which is going to immediately add value. Those quick little wins – or adding a granny flat, which gives you an extra $300 a week in your pocket. Those quick little wins in that first 6 months motivate you massively to move forward. Because, one, financially, you can see the benefit and, two, a good win on the right sort of property means that you might be able to, in 12 months’ time, instead of saving for your next deposit, re-draw some equity and actually go again without any of your own money down. I’ll tell you what, nothing feels better than buying a property with someone else’s money.
You can find a 3-bedroom house and renovate it or add a bedroom which is going to immediately add value. Those quick little wins – or adding a granny flat, which gives you an extra $300 a week in your pocket.
Those quick little wins in that first 6 months motivate you massively to move forward. Because, one, financially, you can see the benefit and, two, a good win on the right sort of property means that you might be able to, in 12 months’ time, instead of saving for your next deposit, re-draw some equity and actually go again without any of your own money down. I’ll tell you what, nothing feels better than buying a property with someone else’s money.
Ryan: I think that’s so cool to think about. Getting those early results and seeing the financial rewards of your efforts. It’s one of the things that I hate about negative gearing. Because, logically, often, negative gearing makes sense if you can pick the right market because you lose money on the property, you get some tax benefits and you get this growth. However, knowing that humans are emotional beings, knowing the way that we actually respond to
However, knowing that humans are emotional beings, knowing the way that we actually respond to things, when you buy something and it is sucking you dry and it’s just sucking all of the cash flow from your life, you’re losing hundreds of dollars a week because you’re paying for this property. And then, the market stagnates and you’ve got 5 years of waiting with this property you’re paying for. That’s going to demotivate anyone.
So, even though sometimes positive gearing might not be as good as buying in Sydney during just before the boom or something like that, knowing that you’re emotional, by getting those instant results, seeing that cash flow come in, maybe purchasing a property that you can renovate to increase the value, to increase the cash flow or do it like a granny flat, which might take 3 months to build, and then you’ve got this influx of cash flow coming in. That stuff just pumps you up so hard and you’re just super excited because you’re like, “Oh my gosh! I’m getting $50 a week and I’m not doing anything for it.” or “I just built a granny flat and now there’s an extra $300 a week coming in. This is amazing!” and you’re like, “How can I do this again?” Because you can see this is now generating X amount for my life and if I just multiply this by 4 or 5, then I’ll have even more.
That stuff just pumps you up so hard and you’re just super excited because you’re like, “Oh my gosh! I’m getting $50 a week and I’m not doing anything for it.” or “I just built a granny flat and now there’s an extra $300 a week coming in. This is amazing!” and you’re like, “How can I do this again?” Because you can see this is now generating X amount for my life and if I just multiply this by 4 or 5, then I’ll have even more.
Ben: I still never forget that first day when I bought my first positively geared property on the Central Coast in New South Wales. It was a house with a granny flat that we bought really cheap, that rented really well. I’d had negatively geared properties in the past, obviously, from buying in Sydney. I just got my first end-of-month statement and on this statement, it was like, here’s all of my expenses and here’s my income and it was more. I was like, “This is awesome! I just want to keep doing this.” Now, it’s like this property is an employee and it’s making [inaudible13:31] its own time without me having to physically do anything to generate income and I was just addicted to it after that.
I just got my first end-of-month statement and on this statement, it was like, here’s all of my expenses and here’s my income and it was more. I was like, “This is awesome! I just want to keep doing this.” Now, it’s like this property is an employee and it’s making [inaudible13:31] its own time without me having to physically do anything to generate income and I was just addicted to it after that.
Ryan: Yeah. That’s the thing. Generally, it’s people trying to sell you property will talk about the benefits of negative gearing, etc., tax depreciation, all of that sort of stuff. But then, they don’t take into account these addictive benefits of actually getting these early results and seeing how this is impacting your life and allowing you to move forward.
So, definitely, if you want to stay motivated, you want to move to property number 2, it doesn’t have to be positive cash flow. Obviously, I love that. It could be a renovation to increase the value. It could be buying under value, whatever it is. Try and design it so that when you buy the property, you get some early results so that it can keep you motivated in that slump period after you’ve just purchased and you’re so exhausted from the whole situation.
It could be buying under value, whatever it is. Try and design it so that when you buy the property, you get some early results so that it can keep you motivated in that slump period after you’ve just purchased and you’re so exhausted from the whole situation.
Ben: And why not just do what you do on our [inaudible 14:23] these days, which is just get all of it at once? Find a property that grows well at the right time that you can add value that’s also positively geared. They exist everywhere if you know where to look for them. And if you’re prepared to be a tiny bit more active than just buying and waiting, you can get your cake and definitely eat it too at the moment.
Ryan: Yeah. Often, people think, “Positive cash flow or negative gearing.”
Ryan: Yeah. That’s only if you don’t want to do any research. You might only end up with one. But, if you’re willing to do research into the suburb, you can get growth and you can get the cash flow and you can get opportunities to improve things and get those early results. Take your time, choose the right property – the first one – if you want to buy property number 2. Because that’s just going to help you so much.
Something else that we talked about was peer groups. Often, someone, you were saying 25-year-olds, they’ll buy 1 property and they won’t buy another one until they’re 30 because all their friends own 1 property or no property. They’re like king of the hill. And when one of their friends turn 30 and buys their second property, they’re like, “Oh, I better get into gear and buy something else.”
Ben: Yeah. I think I’ve told you this story before, but when I bought my first property in Sydney with my mate, we went out that night and got absolutely hammered. We went out and got beers because no one we knew own property at that age around us. Most of the people that we grew up with that were older than
Most of the people that we grew up with that were older than us didn’t own property either. And I remember every Friday, I self manage this property, I’d go down and pick up an envelop with cash in it, which is our rent return. And then, me and and him and our other mates would just meet at the pub and drink the entire rent on the first night. This is the reality. It just felt so good and we were the guys that always had the money on a Friday on top of their wage. For the first 2 or 3
It just felt so good and we were the guys that always had the money on a Friday on top of their wage. For the first 2 or 3 years I owned that property, I never made a re-payment that wasn’t interest on it because we just kept spending the rent. It’s all part of the fun and games of going through the process, but you’ve got to think bigger than that. Obviously, I learnt my lesson pretty quick.
Ryan: Yeah. Really, getting around people who are further along than you is probably going to be a better situation, don’t you think?
Ben: Absolutely. If there’s not people in your direct environment that are where you want to be, it’s pretty easy to identify those people by having a deeper conversation with people or asking people that you know – your mom and your dad – which of their friends have done well done through property and go on out for a cup of tea or a beer with them and picking their brain. What I did, because I couldn’t find a lot of mentors or people that I looked up to in my direct environment is, this is how we started to touch base because I started to read your stuff and follow your videos and subscribed to your newsletter. I was like, “Wow, this guy is really doing his thing.” And so, I found a lot of my motivation through books of other people that have done stuff or through the podcast or seminars and all of that sort of stuff of the people that are already there. As weird as it sounds, those people sort of became my online support network and it was really powerful for me.
I was like, “Wow, this guy is really doing his thing.” And so, I found a lot of my motivation through books of other people that have done stuff or through the podcast or seminars and all of that sort of stuff of the people that are already there. As weird as it sounds, those people sort of became my online support network and it was really powerful for me.
Ryan: Yeah. Your best friends aren’t naturally going to be great property investors and so, you can’t hope for that. We’re not saying that you should go and find a property investor and become best friends with them because that’s probably unrealistic. But even meeting up with people maybe once every month or every couple of months or something.
There’s lots of property investment meet ups that you can go to in any city around Australia. Just go to meetup.com and search for property and there’ll meet ups where people are meeting to talk about property investing. Stuff like that can motivate you or listening to podcast, reading blogs, reading the magazines or books if you can’t find anyone.
You’re kind of like creating this peer group around you even though it’s only books and you’re getting mentors from them even though you’re not hanging out. But, that can definitely help you stay motivated on the big picture for what you want to achieve.
Ben: I remember going to Tony Robbins’ firewalk weekend about 6 years ago.
Ryan: Did you walk on fire?
Ben: Walked on fire.
Ryan: Did it hurt?
Ben: No. It’s so weird. He gets you, over a period of a couple of hours, in this – he calls it “state change” where you’re just ready to do it. And then, for some reason, it’s like, I don’t know. Because I wasn’t burnt after it either. The receptors like stopped working or something happens during this state and you can just do it. You don’t rush
The receptors like stopped working or something happens during this state and you can just do it. You don’t rush across it either. You just slowly walk across it and there’s all this people clapping you and getting you pumped on it.
Ryan: And it’s legit hot? Like, it’s legit —
Ben: It’s coals, man. It is coals. Like it’s volcanic coals. It’s crazy how he does it. I don’t know how he does it. That’s probably not the purpose of why I was saying this either.
Ryan: I was just curious because I had seen that before. I was like, “Oh, someone who’s actually done it! Is it legit?”
Ben: Yeah. It’s fully legit. Well, apparently, it’s legit. It’s probably cold and he’s just got you in such a state that he’s like, “You’re walking across coal!” and it’s just socks that are painted red or something. But, he said this thing, which just stuck with me and it’s probably the thing that’s stuck with me most, was, basically, the results in your life in terms of health, relationships, friendships, financial results, business results are pretty much the accumulation of the 5 people in your life that you spend the most time with. I, after that, looked around who I was hanging with and our incomes were all within 20% of each other. Our health results were all within 20% of each other. And I was like, “This is crazy.” Because your mates are always going to be your mates, your family is always going to be your family. But, to go to that next level, if that’s something that’s important to you, I had to find people that were already there and already doing it.
Our health results were all within 20% of each other. And I was like, “This is crazy.” Because your mates are always going to be your mates, your family is always going to be your family. But, to go to that next level, if that’s something that’s important to you, I had to find people that were already there and already doing it.
Ryan: Well, now, the people I spend the most time with is, I’ve got my wife and then I got 3 kids. So that makes 4. A 6-year-old, a 4-year-old and a 1-year-old. So, I don’t know what influence they’re having on my life.
Yeah, I understand hanging around with people. I believe, definitely, people have a big influence on you, but I don’t know about the closest 5 is going to determine your life. I don’t necessarily —
Ben: I agree. I’m just looking behind you and I can see 5 TVs, so I don’t know what’s going on with all those kids, but it sounds [inaudible 20:27]
Ryan: But yeah, I do definitely think that having the right people around you and if you can line up people who have done it before, even just going out for coffee once with someone. Generally, people are more than happy to do it – to invest their knowledge into someone else and shout them a coffee.
I remember one dude, one of my advisor in internet marketing, took me out for lunch, made me pay for it. I’m like, yeah, if you take someone out and you’re getting their advice, at least buy them a coffee or something like that. Yeah, even that will help you.
I think the last thing that we wanted to touch on was just staying focused on your end goal and realizing that you’re not there yet. So, you set your strategy, you bought property number 1, you have a goal that you want to achieve, you’re not there yet. So, don’t get so focused on the property that you’ve got that you forget about where you actually want to end and why you bought that property in the first place.
Ben: Absolutely. As shortlived that feeling of being overwhelmed disappears and that feeling of getting hungry and wanting to move forward again, at some point, is going to come up. You just need to decide if it’s going to come up 6 months after you buy your first property or 10 years.
And I can tell you the difference between waiting 10 years to get into property 2 as opposed to creating a strategy where you can get in with 2 or 3 years is significant amounts of financial independence and wealth in the future.
Ryan: How do you think people – or what’s a good tip for people to stay motivated on their end goal after they’ve purchased their first property and they’re probably emotionally slumped?
Ben: I think about it personally because I ride the exact same waves that everybody else does. Like we talked about in one of the previous videos, I think it was the second one around goal setting; being clear about what you want in the next 12 months and also being relatively clear about what you want long term.
For me, putting a goal in 10 years’ time of $100,000 passive income doesn’t really pull me towards that goal. But, having a picture of me in Africa with my family on glamping it up in some sweet tent in Africa, that pulls me forward.
The only way I’m going to be able to achieve that is if I’ve got time and if I’ve got the income to be able to do that stuff. That’s how I personally do it. And I just stay motivated based on lifestyle and family-related stuff because I found, for me personally, that’s what drives me. Money definitely doesn’t drive me anymore.
Ryan: That’s the thing. When you say $100,000 a year and that’s my goal, it’s not something to really get excited about. But if you’re like, “Here’s the life that I’m going to be living, the experiences that I’m going to have.” That would definitely motivate a lot of people.
I really like your idea of you’ve kind of have this end goal and keep that in mind, but what’s your next step? After you purchased the first property, think about – well, again, it comes back to thinking about your next purchase and making sure that you’re moving towards that. Because that is your next goal and to stay focused on that next purchase or that next goal.
Ben: Yeah. I saw this epic little video the other day on Facebook. It was a guy called Gary Vaynerchuk. Everyone’s got an opinion about Gary and I’m sure there’s people that listen to your podcast that follow his as well. He’s kind of a guy that took his parents wine company and turned it into a massive empire. He just said just one simple thing that stuck with me and it’s just get busy on the action.
In the video, he’s like, act and act and act and just keep doing the doing because the doing and the momentum creates the results. So focus on the action and just have a good idea of where you’re going long term and you’ll get there.
Ryan: I think that’s great. I think we’ve given people a lot of things to think about. Whether they’ve just purchased their first property, even their second or they’re still thinking about it. Keeping these things in mind are going to be important for you. Especially that tip about always thinking about your next purchase. Even though you’re buying 1 property now, always thinking about, “Okay, well, what’s going to be next?” I think that’s going to help to motivate you as well as getting around like-minded people who are moving towards the same goal.
If you can’t get around them, then educating yourself from some of the people who have done it or going to meet ups or something like that. Staying focused on your end goal and then as well, we talked about getting those early results.
That would be so key for people. So if you can take those tips, guys, and use them when you purchase your first or your next investment property, that will help you to stay motivated towards accumulating more and more properties so that you can achieve the goal and live the life that you want.
Ben: Fantastic. Perfect.
Ryan: Alright. I think we’ll leave it there. Thanks, guys, so much for listening. We have one more episode coming up. We’re going to talk about something that me and Ben are kind of dealing with at the moment or had to deal with. And that is, once you’ve achieved your goals, what next? Because you think that at the end of the tunnel, you’ve achieved your goals, your life’s going to be hunky dory, you’re going to be so stoked. But, it kind of doesn’t work out that way.
So we’ll talk about that in the next episode, which will be really exciting. And until next time, stay positive.