Investor Profile: Jonathan Preston – 5 Properties in 4 Years

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In this investor profile we talk to Jonathan Preston who has purchased 5 properties in the last 4 years. If you want to be featured on On Property simply email [email protected]

Hey guys! Ryan here from OnProperty.com.au, helping you find positive cash flow property. And one of the things that people love to hear is from investors who have gone out there, purchased property themselves and had some experience in the market and achieved some success. And so today for our Investor Profile, I have with me Jonathan Preston, who has purchased 4 properties himself and has built up quite a successful portfolio and has just written a book about it as well.

Ryan: Hi Jonathan! Thanks for coming on today.

Jonathan: Thanks very much for having me.

Ryan: So, give us first an overview of what is your portfolio and what does it look like. And then we will talk more specifically about each of your properties and why you chose to purchase those ones.

Jonathan: Yes. So at the moment I have 5 properties. 4 of them are located in Sydney, more specifically Western Sydney, and the last one that I purchased was in Queensland. Basically, I have the philosophy observed like yield-growth, and I believe in that you can actually to continue to build a portfolio over time.

Ryan: Yeah. So we were talking a bit before this interview about how you like to invest in areas that are set to grow but you like to have a decent enough field so that they are either neutral or they are positively geared so you can afford to grow your portfolio because we all know that if you go super negatively geared, that is only a couple of properties before you run out of the income to support those properties. So I can understand your attitude there.

So, talk us through the first property that you purchased. Actually, are you able to share results of like what have you achieved in terms of equity and stuff like that or passive income before you get into it?

Jonathan: Yeah, sure. Well, I will go through each one individually and say what I think it was roughly worth, what I purchased it for, everything like that. So first one that I got was a 2-bedroom in Liverpool.

I bought that towards the end of 2012, and that is just a basic kind of 2-bedroom unit. It was quite nicely renovated inside. I paid $217,000 for that one. The rental yield was appraised between $300 and $310 a week, so it was pretty good in terms of the yield there. I would say today, that is worth about $380 – $390, so capital growth on that has been pretty substantial.

Ryan: Yeah. Obviously the Sydney market has gone pretty crazy in the last couple of years so you got in at a good time, definitely there. What was your reason for choosing Sydney, and for choosing Liverpool in particular? Do you live around that area or is there some sort of strategy behind it?

Jonathan: No. Actually, I have not lived around there. Basically, I wanted to find somewhere that met the criteria of being high yield but also very commutable to Sydney. The commutability to me, to a major city is very important part of the equation.

That is really because I think that the urban sprawl is going to take place over time, and I really think that how much a property could go up in value is largely determined by income growth over time, and the capital cities typically will find, basically see much greater income growth over the long term. So, Liverpool was quite attractive…

Ryan: Is that something that you know, like is there somewhere that we can say that income growth in capital cities has grown faster than in regional centers or is that just something that we think?

Jonathan: I do not know if I can quote you an exact source but if you look at the major centers of the world even when we are looking in Sydney, in New York, London, you will find that the incomes are much higher generally in the major areas than in the peripheral cities. And if you look at house prices across the major centers as well, often that is very much reflected in those prices. If you look at around Sidney and everything, if you look at the inner-city areas, you know the eastern suburbs, the coast in the west, lower north shore, these houses that are going for $2 million to $5 million for substantial houses; obviously, someone is going to need quite a lot of income to support one of those properties.

And you can go somewhere like Bathurst or something, I cannot imagine that there is going to be that many people that are going to be earning $200,000 to $500,000 a year that are going to be able to actually support that. Of course, there are going to be anomalies to every situation but I really believe that the proximity to the capital city is going to allow people to earn more, which will allow them to afford a much larger mortgage basically; I guess just to expand a little bit further.

Ryan: Well, I am just going to say that Liverpool is like a commuter hub really, is it not, in terms of getting from the western Sydney into the inner city?

Jonathan: Exactly. And they have the big train station there. It is quite infrastructure heavy, which I think is a really good point. And there is also the Westfield and everything there. I think that it is an area that has gone through quite a gentrification style change over the last war, and so I think that it is in a good location geographically and yet it is very easy to get into the city and get around from there.

So I felt very comfortable going in there for the first purchase because I knew that it is not going to turn around and be rubbish tomorrow or anything like that. It is a solid place. It has the infrastructure, it is well built up and there is definitely a lot of rental appeal for people to live there as well.

Ryan: Something about the regional centers or the rural areas is that they can grow really quickly but they can also flip and go the other way quite quickly as well. And as you are saying, obviously people love capital cities. People love the areas like Liverpool that are easy to commute to the city because there are always going to be people who want to live there because when you have 4 or 5 million people in Sydney, there is always going to be a level of demand there versus a rural area that has 2,000 people or something like that, which can fluctuate a lot more.

So you purchased that property and I guess your goal was to have a decent yield for that property, what made you go on to then purchase the second property? And talk us through property number 2.

Jonathan: Yes. From there, I went to buy a property in the Mt. Druitt Villages region. I felt a lot more comfortable after getting the first purchase in terms of not necessarily needing the world’s best infrastructure and everything like that. I guess when I first purchased I was initially a little bit scared about getting the rent and is it really going to work out with the rent, paying the mortgage and all the cost.

It was just I had not done it before. And I guess it only took a month or two before we have seen the rental payments coming in and paying the mortgage and realizing like wow, this is really easy; and the property manager doing everything, paying all the bills, sorting all the maintenance. So virtually, there was nothing for me to do except make sure I had enough money in there to pay the mortgage every month. So I was like it was time for me to expand the portfolio, so I bought a place in Mt. Druitt Villages. I paid $238,000 for that.

Ryan: When was this? Was this in 2012 as well?

Jonathan: No. This was early 2013. I bought the other one end of 2012. I think it had been settled just around Christmas time, 2012. So I bought this next one early 2013, I only paid $238,000 for it. I would say today’s value; it would probably be $380,000 to maybe even slightly more than that.

Ryan: What made you choose Mt. Druitt because obviously Mt. Druitt has a history of being a very dodgy area of Sydney? I have heard a lot of gentrification stuff is going on in Mt. Druitt at the moment, or has been, but a lot of people would be scared to invest in the area like Mt. Druitt, with the history of crime, drug abuse and all of this sort of stuff. So, what made you go for Mt. Druitt of all the areas you could choose?

Jonathan: Well, the yield was pretty attractive. So, when I actually first someone in, I got $345 a week for it and that was on the $238,000 price and this was a 4-bedroom that had been recently renovated. And with that, it had a front and back garden, marble bench top, it was huge.

Ryan: So this was a house, obviously?

Jonathan:  And so I had seen probably – it is like a villa, it is kind of part of like a group of them that it has quite a lot of space, so there are 7 on the block. But yeah, it has a front and back garden, and it was really just a huge property. By this point I had seen quite a lot of properties, and I saw that the price of it was really attractive. And I felt more comfortable after buying the Liverpool place and I kind of wanted to take advantage of the gentrification that I believed was going to happen. I felt that Liverpool had a little bit of gentrification to go but not that much.

I was already comfortable with the area, but I felt like if I can find somewhere that had more room to gentrify, there was going to be more gains to be had, and I felt there was a lot of room for young families to move in there and that was going to make the price go up. And then the nature of it was that they will be getting priced out of the rest of Sydney by that point already. So I thought that there is room for the next couple of years or the next 10, 20 years for it to gentrify a lot more, and with that the big, big capital gains to come.

Ryan: Yeah. And obviously, gentrification has happened in so many areas where you have seen prices go up significantly. I remember back when Redfern got gentrified and how big an impact that had on that area. Yeah, I can understand looking for areas that are due for gentrification and you can see people being priced out of surrounding areas and wanting to move into this area, and you can see why the government would or the local council would invest in that because obviously, it would be in their best interest to create an area that people want to live in.

So, do you buy 3 properties in Mt. Druitt? Is that what you were saying?

Jonathan: Yes. The next one was actually next door to that property in the same block. The agent called me back and he said, “You know hey, I know you like the other one. The neighbors next door are interested in selling. It is a 2-bedroom, pretty good make, front and back garden again, not quite as big, but they only wanted $205,000 for it.” And I said I cannot say no to that. Rental appraisal was about $280,000.

I already liked the place next door and I thought I had gotten a good deal on it. I thought I will bite the bullet and do it. So yeah, it did not go far from the first purchase, but it was quick as well. I bought that literally, probably within a few weeks of the other one settling. He just thought he would give me a buzz and let me know, and yeah, I snapped it up. And so it did not go far; that was only a 2-bedroom but again it is a villa, so it is quite big. It has that little outside area and a front garden and everything as well. Yeah, it worked out well as well.

Ryan: And then, did you buy another one in that area? Or then, did you go into state after that?

Jonathan: And so then he realized that I kind of like the area and he said, “Maybe I will go dawn-walking for you, see what else I can get.”

Ryan: Are you serious?

Jonathan: Yes.

Ryan: Okay. So this is a happy real estate agent because you have already purchased 2 properties through him. I mean, he had his commission for the 2 and he has found out that you are ready to go again, he was actually going out as like a pseudo-buyer’s agent for you to find you another place.

Jonathan: Yes. So he was actually managing the rentals of pretty much of all the properties in the block, and so he went and spoke to the owners of each of them. And yeah, so I ended up buying another one.

Ryan: In the same block? Really?

Jonathan: Yeah. So this one was…

Ryan: Did you like taking over the block, soon you are going to have a monopoly on the body corporate, you know, you will have the votes…

Jonathan: Yeah. That is the plan. There are only 7 in there, and I have 3 of them now. So we will see how it will go.

Ryan: You only need one more! One more!

Jonathan: So one more, but yes, he asked around. There was a 3-bedroom in the block and this one, they wanted a little bit more but he said that they would take $210,000 for it. The thing was, this one, he said, was in terrible condition. That was why they were prepared to let it go for not much more than the 2-bedroom. Because the 2-bedroom was quite nice, the

is still good. It did not even need any paint. It was not fancy but it did not need any work

, but this one, he said, was pretty bad. I organized to go and see it, and the funny thing was, it was their Christmas party that night, so he was not sure if he was going to make it the next day to show me. Anyway, it turned out the next morning he does not even turn up, said he was too hung over, and he was like, “Just knock on the door and the guy might let you in.” So I knocked on the door and the guy did not let me in. He just ignored me. So anyway, I just did not look. I will take it, and just bought it site unseen, just based on the price and the fact that it was a 3-bedroom.

Ryan: The fact that you already own 2 places in the same block, so you know, at least, what the block is like and the body corporate is like, and you know relatively what it is going to be like. And so when you actually got to see it, was it like a bomb or was it surprisingly good?

Jonathan: I have not seen it yet!

Ryan: Oh, you have not seen it!

Jonathan: A couple of years, I just took the same people in there. They were renting it at the time. So, they were only paying $250 a week because the quality was quite bad, but I thought – he basically told me it needed $20,000 of work to bring it up to market rate and then I would probably be out to rent tit for nearly $300 a week. And so I thought if I do that, then at least I will have a bit of depreciation from that, and it will look nice, and I will not have to renovate it again for 20 years kind of thing. So that was the plan, but the people living in there were not interested in moving out. So I said let me put the rent up a bit, so I put it up to $265, and they were still happy to stay. So I will see how it plays out, but I felt confident just because I know the block.

It was a 3-bedroom, front and back garden, $210,000, and mid-2013; was still very cheap, and so I was just confident of it either way. And yeah, they are still happy there because really, in Sydney, how many 3-bedrooms can you rent for $265 a week?

Ryan: Yeah. I know because I am from Cronulla originally in Sydney; and a 2-bedroom in Cronulla, you are paying over $500 a week to rent a 2-bedroom. A 3-bedroom, you are looking at like $600 to $700, $800 a week, like it gets super expensive down there.

I guess a question that everyone would want me to ask is, have you had any issues with people not paying rent in that area? Or issues with damage to your properties or anything like that? Because I know a lot of people are held back from investing in these higher yield areas that have higher crime rates and lower socio-economic situations, and so have you had issues with these properties at all?

Jonathan: I have had an issue before. There was like a break-in, when someone was not home. So I had to install security doors and everything on one of them, and there was some security concerns so I had to actually lock the house down a little bit more; spend a bit of money on that. But then it only costed me about $1,500 to put some stuff in for that. So that was one thing, but the other was yeah, I did have one group of tenants that stopped paying.

We had to take them to the tribunal, and they ruled against them and there was a date that the sheriff was going to come in, actually forcibly evict them. So, they had gone but they left like 2 days before the sheriff was going to arrive, but they did not leave the keys or anything so we had to change the locks and everything like that. So I lost a couple weeks of rent for that, and at that point I did not actually have landlord insurance because…

Ryan: I was going to ask, I was going to like, delve into this and say, how does insurance work and did you get the money back in terms of rent? But you did not have landlord insurance at all.

Jonathan: No. Initially, I had it on all the properties and then I was kind of looking at it, and I was like, for the cost every year and the likelihood that I am going to get money back, I was not feeling that confident about it. And so I was like I want to take it off for now..

Ryan: Is there a massive difference between regular insurance and landlord’s insurance? Are we talking like thousands of dollar a year or a hundred dollars a year?

Jonathan: No. There is only a couple of hundred dollars a year for the landlord insurance, but I think there was the people that I was using, there was like a minimum level that I had to be climbing back and everything like that; I think there was an excess as well.

Ryan: So you can only claim like upwards of a thousand dollars, and you still have to pay $500 or some sort of an excess like that.

Jonathan: Yeah, there was something that made me look at it and I thought based on the rents that I am receiving, I am going to have a long period of no vacancy for its workout. And I was deciding I would self-insure, but a council would recommend that, and I have actually gone back …

Ryan: I was going to say that you are going back to landlord’s insurance now.

Jonathan: There is another thing as well that landlord’s insurance you often get for some tenants, like if the tenants hurt themselves in your property, and that actually is a pretty big concern. So that is one of the big reasons why I do have it now, but yeah, at that time it was a bit brutal because I missed rent for a long time and when they left, they left it in a terrible condition. They did not destroy stuff but they just left rubbish everywhere and so I had to actually pay to get that fixed up . I had to get new locks and everything installed and then we had to put it back up for rent because we could not obviously advertise it while people were squatting in there.

So, that costed me a couple of thousands to be honest, but if I look at that versus the capital gains, it is night and day. The 2-bedroom that I paid $205,000 for, that is probably worth $340,000, $360,000 at the moment. And then the 3-bedroom that I paid $210,000 for, that is probably – I mean, I do not even know the condition of it, but in the 300s, and then probably with the renovations, I would probably, maybe $350, $360. I’m not sure, but..

Ryan: So, talk us through that experience that you had when you found out – because I know a lot of people are scared of this situation and to hear what you went through and what you felt and how it all panned out would help a lot of people. So talk us through like when you found out they were not paying rent and what steps did you need to take in order to take them into the tribunal? And what is tribunal like? Tell us about the whole experience.

Jonathan: Yes. When I bought those properties, the person who sold them to me, he really pitched me on him being the property manager for them as well. And he really made me confident saying that, “Look, they have been working in that area for a long time and dealt with a lot of people that are renting the very bottom and so property is there, and these had a lot of tribunal experience, everything like that.” So, he really sold me on using him based on that experience. The good thing was that the property manager handled all of it.

I would say that the thing is that that is the part that they are really excellent at. But to be honest they are not the best at holding a lot of open homes and stuff like that. I think they are a little bit overworked, but they sorted it all out for me. I did not have to do anything. But there was definitely a long time where I was kind of like, what is going on? And they had to take it and organize a date for the tribunal, and then the tribunal hearing. And of course, they did not show up – the tenants did not show up or anything. So then there was the date set that they were going to get evicted, and I think that was a couple weeks later.

I had to wait a little bit longer, and then they told me it had been arranged with the sheriff and a specific date and stuff, and they have been putting letters in the letterbox to let the people know that this was coming. I did not go through too much but the part that I did go through was just being told I had to continually wait, wait, wait. And you know, you are not getting any money and I think..

Ryan: So what is the time period from when they stopped paying rent to when you were in tribunal to when they kicked out?

Jonathan: I think it was about 6 weeks to 2 months it took for the process. So you know, we were a couple of weeks behind, things started to move pretty quickly. But once the bureaucracy of getting a tribunal day, and then the sheriff and stuff, it took a bit of time. And then yeah, even when they left, it was a week or two when they had to actually get the house skipped in and out there for the amount of rubbish they had left and everything.

Ryan: So did you have to pay for the skip in?

Jonathan: Yeah. You pay for everything. But that was just kind of part of it, and as brutal as it was, to be honest, I expected it, and I am surprised I have not gone through that more. So that was just part of it, and that is part of the gentrification. If you are going to buy in these areas then that is what you are going to do. But if you look at it, what I have paid in lost money is still probably less than if I had taken a property with a lower yield to begin with. So having that higher yield, that really offsets some of these experiences, but you need to have the cash flow to tie these over when you do.

Ryan: Well, that is the thing that people should be aware that if they are going to invest in these areas that do have a higher risk of these. Well, really any area has a risk of this happening, then you do need to be prepared that you might need to have 1, 2, 3 months stretch, but there is no rental income coming in. And do you have enough money that you can afford that until you get a new tenant in or until you get your landlord’s insurance payment, which you obviously did not get. But yeah, it is good for people to see that.

And obviously, you have taken advantage of the massive Sydney burn, which we are all aware of, that has happened over the last 2 years. Did you have any sense that that was coming? Or do you really just feel lucky about the situation that has happened in Sydney.

Jonathan: Well, I did not foresee such a huge capital gain so quickly, but I did find that property was very attractive on a yield basis. That was the thing, so I obviously come from financial background. I used to be a financial advisor and so I was quite familiar with the concept of borrowing money and yields and everything like that. And I started to look at Western Sydney at that time and I was just like wow, with the mortgage rates where they were, relative to the price that I could get something to rent for, it really seemed like a no-brainer.

Obviously, I have not bought property before, so there was some nerves and everything there. But in terms of just an investment, it really stacked up in my mind. But I did not expect it to take off like it has.

It has been potentially a little bit annoying in a way because it is so hard to buy in Sydney now with the prices that there currently are, and the yields have been disseminated. When I started looking before, you had so much choice, over 7% yield in Western Sydney, and it was just more about what you thought was going to go up. It was very easy to find 6.5%, 7% everywhere; and now, very difficult.

Ryan: Yeah. You are talking for some areas are like 2% to 3% yield; you have 4% pr 5% in some, getting a lot harder in Sydney. So, you have purchased your property in Liverpool, which was kind of like a safety pick for you because of that big commuter hub. And then you went to Mt. Druitt and you bought a complex basically, and you have now gone interstate and have gone to Queensland, what caused you to not buy again in the Sydney market but then to go up to Brisbane or Western Brisbane, I think you purchased?

Jonathan: Yes. I would have loved to keep buying in Sydney, but the thing is the yields just were not there, and Queensland was starting to look really attractive. So, I ended up buying a place in Redbank Plains, so that is on the eastern side of Ipswich. I have a 3-bedroom house there, stand alone with no strata and everything this time because everything else I have has strata, and I was kind of getting sick of paying strata.

Ryan: Yeah, that strips your cash flow so badly because you think, okay, 7% yield on a $200,000 property, but you have strata to that; it definitely strips your cash flow versus the same price for property that does not have strata, you are generally in a much better cash flow position.

Jonathan: A little bit. Actually, one thing that was interesting I found was that I had to get insurance on the building when I bought it, as part of the mortgage. And I did not actually realize that when I bought initially. I mean, I guess it is smart to have that, but at the same time that costs quite a lot. It is not in a flood area, so I did not get hit with the massive premium like that, but when I worked out the strata that I am paying like on, say, Liverpool, it was a percentage basis, and I am pretty much paying like almost the same amount just for the building insurance.

So maybe I have insured the building for a little bit too high a value, so we will see how that plays out in time. But definitely that was one thing with strata that I guess I did not realize so much before was that because it includes the building insurance and because it is like a group policy, it is kind of discounted for multiple properties. So that was an interesting learning experience as well, but I was not able to skip strata. This place is only 30-minutes drive to Brisbane CBD, so maybe for Brisbane Heights that might be a bit of a distance. But for us Sydney-siders, I thought that..

Ryan: Yeah, 30 minutes is nothing.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Ryan: I used to live in Cronulla and commute to the city; it was an hour and a half towards the door. And now I live on the Gold Coast, and if anywhere is like over 20 minutes people are like, “Nah, that is too far for me and I am not driving for more than 20 minutes to go somewhere.” And literally, you can get almost across the entire Gold Coast in 20 minutes. But yeah, people are like, “20? Nah, too far,” 15, that is alright but as soon as you go 20, and when I moved here, I was like, “These people are crazy. 20 minutes is nothing.” But the longer you are here you are like, “20 minutes, do I really want to go there?”

Jonathan: Yeah. That is really very different, you know. Like 20 minutes to Sydney, you are only moving a couple of suburbs pretty much.

Ryan: Yeah, a couple of streets sometimes.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Ryan: So you chose that area which also had a good yield, so that was what drove you to the area. And then you said it had like, good growth potential; what factors did you see in that area specifically that you thought this has good potential?

Jonathan: Yeah, I think that a big part of it was probably the commutability, but also because it is just outside of their Brisbane council area. So I found the suburbs that were just to the east of it, they were still considered Brisbane Council. The prices were much higher, but the yield was much lower, and so it seems like the renters were not respecting the fact that something was still within the Brisbane boundary as much as its sort of owners were. I guess that comes back to if you live in Brisbane, you do not want to say you live in Ipswich. You want to say you live in Brisbane so people pay more for that. But as an investor, I am not bothered by that. I will take the yield play and I will just think that Brisbane is one of the more attractive places in the world to live in terms of climate.

It is in Australia so we have great you know, democratic country, everything like that. So I think that as the people become wealthy across the world, more and more people will move to the Gold Coast and Brisbane, and that is going to cause urban sprawl there even though the economy up there is not strong like Sydney, I do see that in 10, 20 years, it is going to keep growing as a place. And I think even people from other parts of Australia, look at yourself, you have moved up there from Sydney, and I think that is a continuing trend, that we will see more of. And obviously, there are a lot of Kiwis moving there as well. I guess always have been, but yeah those are some of the key things that I think will continue to drive Brisbane over the coming decades.

Ryan: Yeah. And I guess something to point out that you saw, that other people should probably look for as well, is that you saw the surrounding areas were of a higher price point but for not necessarily a super valid reason like, yes they are in Brisbane council versus Ipswich council. But they are so much higher even though they are only separated by a couple of minutes drive.

And so, when you start to see that, and you start to see an area that is a lot more expensive than other areas for no reason, then you can expect that hopefully in the future other people are going to realize that as well and say, “Okay, I can live in this one suburb and pay x amount more, or I can just go to this other suburb and get a house with so much less, and get a better house with a bigger backyard and more space, or whatever it is that people want.” And so that kind of drives out what they call the ripple effect. Yeah, definitely something that other people should take on board and look for themselves.

Jonathan: Yeah, exactly.

Ryan: So let us talk about your book and why you wrote the book. If anyone wants to check it out, I have a link. It is OnProperty.com.au/Preston, which is your last name, which you already know, but P-r-e-s-t-o-n. So you can go there, and you can check it out. So, talk us through the book and why you went about creating this book and what you are trying to help people with.

Jonathan: Yes, so I guess a lot of my friends over the last year or two, have sort of been saying they really want to buy a property but they are just not quite sure how to do it. And you know, everything in the area like in the city or stuff like that, are so expensive, and how are they going to get in, how are they going to get started.

And it is a bit long to have in a sort of 5- or 10-minute chat, so I kind of want to build this book to give people just the insights just to how I think you can practically get started as an investor with this sort of yield-growth kind of philosophy that I have sort of run with, which is focusing on getting a good yield, but also being in an area that will go up over time. And so I constructed the book one chapter at a time.

I tried some to get really simple, really easy to read. It is written in a way almost like I speak, and so it is just meant to be like a layman’s guide to actually just how to approach each part of the process, what you should be looking for, what you need to avoid. And basically, how you can actually get started, what you should be looking for, and what I believe will continue to drive value in the future basically.

Ryan: Yeah. And so you guys can check this out, if you go through that link it takes you out to the Kindle store, where you can check it out. And you can click on the picture and you can look inside and you can see a bit of an example of the book and the things that he goes through. So Jonathan talks about his stories, he goes through basically all the basics that you would probably want to cover when it comes to property investing.

So I would say that this is probably more targeted at beginning investors or people who do not have a great deal of knowledge in terms of investing in property versus the sophisticated investor like yourself, who already owns 4 or 5 properties.

So if you are a beginning investor and you want to get some basic understanding, then definitely go ahead and check it out. Click on the look inside and you can get an example of it. And if it is for you, you can go in and pick up a copy. And I think Kindle apps are on your phones, on Kindle devices, on tablets now. You can even download it on your computer. So, anyone can go ahead and get access to that.

So, what is next for you in terms of property investing, in terms of books, and things like that?

Jonathan: So I am still deciding; I do want to write another book and I am thinking about that. I am also doing a podcast as well to help people from like an educational standpoint, so that one is teaching, sort of expanding on what I have talked about in the book. But yeah, I do want to write another book. Potentially that one might be on the sort of historical growth of property in areas, and how it will potentially look in the future.

Obviously, the environment is changing a lot at the moment and so it is going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out on the negative geared and front and everything like that. But more to discuss property as an investment class and where people might be how to see in 20-plus-years kind of thing. So I just want to keep educating people and help people make money in property.

Ryan: I think the more education people can have when they are looking at investing in property, the better the decisions they are going to make. And hopefully they can end up like yourself and purchase a growing portfolio of properties that has delivered great results.

So Jonathan, thanks so much for coming on today! Again, you guys can check out his book, just go to OnProperty.com.au/Preston, and until next time guys, stay positive!