Investing in Property on a Low Income at 24 – Interview with Matt Chamberlain

Matt Chamerlain was able to purchase his first property at the age of 24 while on a low income. In this episode we talk about early financial lessons he learned, how get got into property, the details of his investments and his plans for the future.

This is an inspiring interview with an up and coming property investor and I’m grateful that he was able to share his story with us.

0:00 – Introduction
0:40 – Matt’s first financial lessons
7:09 – What go Matt into property
9:59 – How to invest on a low income
17:13 – Avoiding bad debt
19:00 – Why did you use a buyer’s agent?
24:38 – The experience using a buyer’s agent
27:57 – Matt’s property details
30:59 – How has owning the property been
32:35 – What’s Matt’s long term goals
38:35 – Last big takeaway

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Ryan 0:00
Today, I’m really excited because I have a very inspiring investor on the channel. Today, I’m interviewing Matt Chamberlain, who was able to purchase his first property at the age of 24. All while doing it on a low income. I love these stories where we can talk through people’s journey, how they got into property, how they’re able to secure their property, and where they’re looking to go in the future. So hey, Matt, thanks for coming on today.

Matt 0:23
no problems at all. Ryan? Glad to be here.

Ryan 0:25
Yeah. So you hit me up over email and said, I’ve been listening to you for years, you’ve used Ben and Simon as buyer’s agents to help purchase your property. Do you want to chat? It took me way too long to get around to doing this. But I’m really excited to talk to you today about your journey. So do you want to take us back, I guess, to the beginning, where did interest in property or personal finance and things like that start for you, it was,

Matt 0:49
it was at a very young age, my, my mum probably was the best role model for this when I was maybe 567 years old. Back then we she opened a like a Super Saver account at the local bank with, you know, for my brother and I, and maybe not, you know, on day one, but over time, she really educated us on you know, the perks of that particular savings account, and what you have to do each week to achieve, you know, your high interest rates, and that kind of stuff, which, you know, as it happened, it was depositing a certain amount of money each and every month. So what she would do is, she would give my brother and I pocket money, she’d give us $10 each week, but what she would do is she’d hand it to us say it, you know, at the school gate, and then we’d all go down to the bank. And then we deposit it without deposit book straight to the bank teller, put it into our bank account. And, you know, we got the receipt back. And we could see over time, our all of our different lines on the on the checkbook, where, you know, our money was slowly increasing over time. And I guess that was probably the very first introduction for me with, you know, learning about money and how money works. But then, you know, fast forward five, five years or so when I got my first job when I was 13. Again, sorry, tax man, but I always got paid in cash back then. So the, the owner of that business would pay us in cash again, same thing, I think the best thing about, about having that experience when I was much younger is that I could see, you know, I guess cash, see notes and dollars and actually probably associated that mostly with walking straight to the bank, as opposed to walking into the canteen or something like that,

Ryan 2:40
you know, that was me when I was 13 or 14, I got a paper on. And so I would go around the streets blowing my whistle, people would come out and buy papers and tip you and that’s kind of how I started. And yeah, same as you got paid in cash, looking back on it never even thought about tax or anything like that. But at that age, I think we’d be earning over the amount anyway to have to pay tax But

Matt 3:02
no, very true. Very true. So look at that was 13 was, you know, the first job and then that I slowly got pay rises in that and moved into to, I guess, well after school. So again, five years down the track 17 when I graduated, I’d been working part time for a fair while. And probably I think it might have been in year 12 I actually picked up a book called The barefoot investor. And that really taught me all about, I guess money management. So yes, I was putting all this money into a bank account, but I didn’t really know why I was doing it, or what I was working towards. I just knew that I had, you know, a couple of $1,000 sitting in the bank.

Ryan 3:42
Yeah, so you have a good savings habit, but you had no purpose behind it or really goals or ambitions of what to do with that money.

Matt 3:50
Absolutely. And you know, the Barefoot investor was the probably came at the perfect time because by then, you know, 17, I bought a $3,000 car, I was then deciding that I was going to save up and go over to Europe and spend some money in Europe on a holiday but picked up the book and realized that okay, I can actually be doing all of that I want to end putting some more money aside to savings and investment down the track. So, you know, I walked into the bank when I was 18 when I was you know able to kind of control my own my own bank accounts and that and asked the lady if she could set up six online saver accounts. And she nearly fell off a chair because she was just she just didn’t understand why I needed so many accounts.

Ryan 4:37
Yeah, well and as well five years ago, or even more, having that many online accounts was not very common, whereas now barefoot investors more prevalent having multiple accounts, you can just set them up online. Easy. Yep,

Matt 4:50
yep, so true. So look, I had my you know, I have my emergency account. I had my bills account where I’d pay all of my ratios and stuff throughout the year. savings, all that kind of stuff. And the best thing about it was, you know, car radio would come around, and I’d have to spend 800 bucks or something, but it didn’t bother me at all I had to do is transfer it out of one account into my spending account and just pay the bill. So that was something that just, I think, really resonated with me and I kind of held on to that. Going into full time work.

Ryan 5:20
It has been so good the Barefoot investor and his whole money management. I’ve applied that to my own life with some tweaks as well. And it’s that situation when it when a bill comes up a big bill like car Reggio, or insurances and things like that, when you’ve been putting aside the money every single week, you can just kind of take it, move it in pay the bill, it’s so good. So I’ve done a video on explaining the bank accounts and buckets. And so I’ll link up to that down below. But yeah, I run with that as well. It’s the best thing ever.

Matt 5:50
So look, then we move on to after school worked three jobs at one point, worked very, very hard saved up, went over to Europe the first time and in spent about $10,000. For me back then that was a hell of a lot of money. But I managed to make it last for 73 days in the end, came back and then went straight into my first year of a Business and Commerce degree at uni. So always again, probably on the vein of learning about money and business, I really enjoyed the concept of doing a business degree. Yep, I moved into that and carried two part time jobs throughout my whole degree whilst whilst working full time, or sorry, while studying full time. So continued I guess the savings habit. And through that time, I managed to get over to Europe again for another two months. And then pretty much for the let’s say second year onwards really started saving and putting all that money into a bit of an idea for me was was getting enough money for a house deposit back then.

Ryan 6:57
Okay, and what inspired saving for a house deposit barefoot investor, he tends to talk about, you know, shares more over a house or he does talk about buying your own home, but not so much investment properties. So what was it that got you thinking, Okay, I’m going to save for a house deposit. And how old were you on stage?

Matt 7:16
So first year at uni I was 18 second, third, fourth uni as bet what 22 you know, in my fourth year of uni, but I probably picked up a book by the name of Rich Dad Poor Dad, which again, another I guess household favorite. When I was maybe 20 years old. Yep. And it was in my let’s say that was in my second year of uni started obsessing over property. And I was commuting 40 minutes a day, each way to uni. So I thought what better way to waste the car trip buyer starting to educate myself about property and picked up all of these different podcasts he was included, on what the property marketing in Australia does, how it works, how leverage works, how to buy a property, who you need in your team to buy a property, all that kind of stuff, which was, I guess, my education piece at the same time as I was, you know, putting all this money aside to save for a deposit.

Ryan 8:14
That’s so cool to hear that, you know, you’re using that commute time productively to learn about these sorts of things, which is definitely something that’s massively changed my life in so many different areas, whenever I’m driving anywhere, going anywhere, even brushing my teeth, I’m often like listening to something and learning and I remember being a pharmaceutical rep, because I would drive around a lot. And so all the other reps would just listen to the radio and music. And I would I would just churn through podcasts after podcasts on two times speed. But I just learned so much. And it’s just, it’s really changed my life dramatically. And obviously doing the same thing has changed the trajectory of your life as well. Absolutely. I

Matt 8:51
think that was one of many decisions I made over the last you know, that say, study period. that put me I guess, into the position that I’m in now, but I want to touch on something you said, you know, listening to podcasts at two times speed. I do the same. And you know, sometimes if I’ve got it on loudspeaker and my partner he is she she honestly, you can’t comprehend that I can actually understand what people are saying. Yeah, for a bit of a hot tip. If, if you’re comfortable with listening to someone speak, put it on one and a half or two times and you’ll get through twice as much podcasting.

Ryan 9:22
Yeah, exactly. And you can work your way up here, one and a quarter, then one and a half, then two times I can get mine up to about three and a half times speed before I start not being able to understand it.

Matt 9:33
Well that’s that’s a skill. Definitely.

Ryan 9:36
Okay, so through uni, you kind of you decided you sign up, say for a house deposit, you’re in this phase probably similar to life. I do what you just like, I just want to learn everything about this. You kind of looking forward to your commute every single day because like yes, I get to listen to more. And so you’re educating yourself around this time. When did you decide okay, I’ve got my deposit or I’m ready to invest and you said Well before the interview, you were actually able to invest on quite a low income, which I think a lot of people listening to this will be thinking, Okay, I want to invest, but I’ve got got a low income. So I definitely want to touch on. Okay. How did you manage that?

Matt 10:13
Yeah, for sure. So I, by the end of my degree, I was really keen on, I guess, understanding or getting into a career in financial markets. So I, you know, I guess I was intending to move down to Sydney, from Newcastle, where I am based these days, unfortunately, it was incredibly competitive. And I picked up a an accounting role at PricewaterhouseCoopers. So slightly different. But I guess accounting for one of the big four public practice firms in the world. So I moved into audit in public practice. And what that did for me is I got exposure to some really, really awesome big, big business in Newcastle, in Sydney, and in Australia. And also sorry, global business, which I guess was also awesome for my business acumen, understanding how business works, and all that kind of stuff. But if you talk about the income that you’re receiving on a graduate roll in, in one of these big accounting firms, they they’ve got people just falling over each other to become or to be part of these firms, because they’re so reputable. And as a result, they can afford to, to, I guess, pay salaries, which might not necessarily be commensurate to the rest of the market. Or if you were to go, you know, work for a smaller business, for instance. So, you know, I walked into PwC, it was 2018, March in 2018. And I started on a graduate salary of $48,000, super inclusive. So you had to take your 10%, super out of that. So I was sitting on, let’s say, $44,000. And for sure what I luckily, I was able to consider continue living at home. And I did that for about six months, before I moved out and, and started renting in a share house. But yeah, I mean, it started pretty low. And by the time I purchased, which was a year and a half later, my my base salary had gone up to $52,000. So when I actually purchased my property, I was sitting on a salary of $52,000. And I completely financed that property and save the deposit for that property or myself.

Ryan 12:35
Yeah, so 44, grand or even 52,000 is not by any means a high salary, no one I think would really consider all that you are living the life right there. It’s not terrible, especially as a single person, I mean, me trying to do three kids on that sort of money in Sydney, I’d be like, I don’t know if I could. But okay, so through that process, you able to save you deposit was savings, obviously, you had the habit from a young age, which we talked about, you’d work multiple jobs through uni, and saved up a bit, there was a just, I guess, keeping your expenses low and keeping up that habit of saving that allowed you to accrue the deposit? And how much did you I guess need to save to get into the market?

Matt 13:17
Well, it all started through just after school, I set myself a goal of saving $150 a week, every week, no matter if I earned. Or if I did 10 hours that week, and I had $200 in total, or I you know, it was in the Christmas period, and I was working 70 hours. But it was $150 a week no matter what the week. That was awesome. Because you know, over four years or so you can build up a half decent house deposit, then you go into full time work. And you’re you’re able to save a little bit more of that. So the total purchase price of that property was was 370,000 in the end. So I think I got in with a better 12% deposit, or maybe a little bit less than 12%. So we’re sitting some close to $50,000 in the deposit. And then we had some additional costs on top of that to get in.

Ryan 14:09
You have to pay the stamp duty and everything as well to get in. That’s right. Yeah, so

Matt 14:13
I bought up in Brisbane, I’m obviously based in Newcastle used Ben and Simon at Pumped on Property to to get into the property market with their help. But as a result, because I was an investor, I didn’t get it like the first time owners stamp duty exam, you know, we don’t get the exemptions or anything like

Ryan 14:29
that. So I guess you saved your deposit over multiple years is kind of how you did it. So you didn’t save it just in 112 month block where you didn’t spend any money and saved everything. It’s kind of through university and then your early years working you just kind of saved diligently every single year by paying yourself first which is what we talked about on this show, which is just when you get paid whatever your pay cycle is put some money aside for yourself first, and then live off the rest or if you can’t live off the rest workout. Okay, how can I make some more money today survive, but I’ve already put my money aside to invest. So you saved over a number of years was getting a loan on such a low income difficult for you.

Matt 15:09
It It was an it wasn’t the the type of property we secured on or we’re looking for needed to be a little bit more specific in terms of the the rental return on that, you know, eventual product, because the bank was much more interested in how easily the the property could finance itself or how much of the property would be financed, or the holding costs will be financed by the rent.

Ryan 15:37
Okay, so you found a lender that was willing to take into account I guess, the full rental income of the property, or maybe 80%, or a percentage of it, rather than I know, some lenders will say, okay, whatever the purchase price is, we’re just going to stick a random percentage or like a set percentage yield on it. So you had to go with a lender that would say, Okay, we’ll actually look at how much this is going to rent for, whether it be 353 80 a week, or whatever it is, and now, they use that to help you with your serviceability. Is that correct?

Matt 16:06
Yeah, yeah, it wasn’t, there wasn’t specific rigorous, I guess, metrics we needed to go after. But because I was, you know, I wasn’t essentially what we purchased was a property, cash flow neutral property. So the bank with all of their servicing haircuts that they, they factoring, they still allowed me to borrow 370 grand on all 330 In the end, on, you know, that type of purchase price. And it was with one of the big four, it was we CBI, so didn’t have too many specific issues or anything. And unfortunately, though, I locked in a fixed rate a year and a bit ago, and it’s pretty high. Now.

Ryan 16:47
It’s so funny to say, you know, whether you’d be on four point something percent or five point something percent, to say that’s a high rate is just here would be mind boggling a couple of years ago, when interest rates were obviously so much higher. But I guess I guess that’s the thing is like, Do I go with fixed? Or do I go with a variable rate when you don’t know which way it’s going to go? It can be difficult to decide. So let’s talk about Okay, so, purchasing on a low income was really that just that diligence of paying yourself first doing it over a number of years, keeping your expenses low? I’m guessing as well, we didn’t talk about it, but like not getting into frivolous debt to buy cars, or holidays, or credit cards or things like that, is that correct?

Matt 17:30
Absolutely. I mean, I, the only my only association with afterpay is that I’ve invested in it and, and made a little bit of money before I purchased purchased my house. But look after pay and credit cards and all that kind of stuff. Again, reading those books early in the piece. And I think having some good money management values from mom and dad made me realize that there’s a very big clear distinction between good debt and bad debt. And I really wanted to stay clear of bad debt, you know, all that credit card stuff, any car, new car on finance, all that just it didn’t interest me whatsoever.

Ryan 18:07
And I think that’s something that comes with good management and practicing those skills. And getting good at that is that you end up saving up a buffer funds that you can use for you know, we talked about when expenses come up like car registration or bills or whatever it may be, if you’ve got those good money management, you’ve got money put aside, you can pay for it with ease was I remember when my money management skills were not as good things like that would come up, you were not prepared for any kind of felt like you needed a credit card for those unexpected expenses, because you just didn’t have the money for it. So you pay them and then you’d have to pay the credit card off. Whereas being a position now where I don’t use credit cards at all, but my money management that I can see, like I’ve planned into the future, I’ve got buffers in place. So okay, you don’t really need those things once you get better at it. I just think that’s interesting point that some people might be like, Okay, I’m getting better at money management skills. So let’s go now that you decided to go with a buyer’s agent, which I find interesting because you’re on a low income. So it was already hard for you to save a deposit buyer’s agent, obviously you need to pay for their services, you’re also someone who’s like super into property, like really enjoys learning about it. So just someone who I would probably say would probably go and do it themselves was with you and your decision to hire the team over at Pumped on Property, go with a buyer’s agent for your first property purchase.

Matt 19:30
There’s probably three things that we can talk about. The first one would be that this was going to be my first purchase. So if I was going to, you know go through the process myself and attempt to purchase something myself, logistically, it would have been difficult for me to buy outside of my home, you know, area of Newcastle. Yes, I could have flown up to Brisbane back then we were you know, able to So, flying up to Brisbane, it would have been different For me to, I guess logistically get up there all the airfares costs associated with that, and then I might get on the ground and I could walk around three suburbs in a weekend turn around come home. And I wasn’t confident that those three suburbs would have been the right ones I needed to see, do I walk down a street that you know, was maybe one or two streets further away than I needed to actually be walking down all that kind of stuff, which I just did not have the local area knowledge to be able to do so. Myself. So look, if I was going to do it myself, it would have had to have been in Newcastle or logistically close to Newcastle. Then you overlay that with I guess I’d been listening to two and a half years of experts speaking about the property market. And a lot of commentary was saying that Sydney and I guess by association, Newcastle is only two and a half hours up the road, and very heavily correlated to, you know, the Sydney market was my money actually going to be serving me well enough in if I was to put it into the Newcastle market, as opposed to putting it elsewhere in Australia. Yeah. And I actually did a lot of analysis over it, because I could have purchased in Newcastle, and possibly avoided paying stamp duty, which is a big costing, you know, getting into property because I could have been a first time buyer,

Ryan 21:23
you’re what you was when you were looking at purchasing.

Matt 21:26
So I purchased in 2019. In May, or sorry, June 2019. Okay,

Ryan 21:30
so just for some context for people out there who aren’t aware of what had happened, like in that time, and like you’re talking about market timing here is that from you know, kind of middle of 2017, Sydney hit its peak, Newcastle, obviously very correlated to Sydney meeting going down for about 18 months to two years, at that point. So June 2019, you know, the market had been on a decline and drops by probably 10 to 15%, depending on what suburbs you look in. So the market had, like a rapid rise had had a decline, you know, late 2019, the market actually shot back up again. And then obviously COVID here and 2020. And that’s a whole nother story in and of itself. But just some context for people there of like, when you’re talking about market timing, when you’re talking about, you know, the experts in the field, a lot of people were saying, around that time, you know, Sydney and Melbourne have gone through these rapid growth cycles. They’re on a decline now. But no one was really saying, Oh, it looks like Sydney and Melbourne are just going to boom massively over the next five years. Whereas people were saying, Oh, you know, Brisbane has got potential Perth got some potential Hobart was going off at the time.

Matt 22:40
It’s exactly right. And I mean, if I still feel confident in the decision I made to invest in Brisbane, because I think, you know, medium term. For me, I’m going to be my acquisition acquisition phase for a fair while so growth will be important for me. I do feel like there’s a higher likelihood of Brisbane outperforming the growth in Sydney and other suburb, sorry, other capital cities, at least in the short to medium term. I mean, you know, history would say and that’s reflected in median house prices in Sydney and Melbourne that that those bigger cities perform better. But for me, it was kind of like a one to five year play. Okay, well, how, how can I be most confident in ensuring growth over the short to medium term so I can leverage into say, the next property. When that time comes, I could have invested in Newcastle I felt like it wasn’t where I needed to park my money. And then I knew that I guess other capital cities were of interest, I’d run into the guys that Pumped on Property through their podcasts, and listened to them, you know, on repeat on my car trips, so I felt like I really got to know them understood their philosophy and what they were trying to achieve with property. And you know, it’s not at the end of the day to have the most properties it’s, it’s to actually build a lifestyle that you that you want to to live, which really resonated with me. So, look, I knew I wanted to put my money into Brisbane. So then it was just up to Okay, well, how can I do that? How can I facilitate that, I could go up there and try and patch it together probably spend $3,000 in you know, going up and back and all that, you know, hysteria with all that then deal with agents, you know, waste a lot of my time and when you know, realistically I didn’t have much time with such a demanding job. So I felt really comfortable to outsource that in our raining to the guys at Pumped on Property. And they just they helped me from start to finish.

Ryan 24:35
And how was the experience? They’re using a buyer’s agent for someone who’s never done it before?

Matt 24:42
It was like unbelievable. There was so many times where I think this is just for any buyer’s agent and an expert really when you’re using an expert to do something that you don’t do every day. There was so many things that they picked up on. They mentioned to me they spoke to me about or the You know, I guess assessed on my behalf without even having a single thought that I should have been doing that if I was doing it myself,

Ryan 25:09
do you have any examples that come to mind of certain things? Like obviously there’s a lot but um, well, there was,

Matt 25:16
there was a, an issue with the building and pest report, it came back with the property that we purchased it came back with some some moisture residue in the wall adjacent to the, to the bathroom, or sorry, to the toilet. But on the bedroom side, and this was upstairs. So then we had a downstairs as well. And my buyer’s agent Adam, like, he said, Look, the this is the building report. And I was like, oh, like, Okay, what does that mean? But then he, you know, he then went through and got got the vendor to actually pay for a lot of further investigation, invasive inspections and analysis, which the vendor paid for. And it gave us more comfort that the problem or the moisture was actually from a problem that had been solved. And it wasn’t something that was going to continue to cause us issues down the line. All of that. I mean, I could have been as a novice investor could have just breezed over that point in the in the building and pest report and never known that, that could be an issue for me down the track.

Ryan 26:20
Yeah. And then also, even if you had no issue, being able to negotiate to say, okay, you as the vendor actually have to pay to get this like inspected before we purchase the property. That’s very hard to do as a novice, but obviously an expert who’s doing this every single day with multiple properties per week, it’s easier for them. They’re also I guess, a bit less emotionally attached to it, as it’s not their first time around. And so they can do those things that I think would give new investors a fair bit of anxiety trying to do that sort of thing. They can help you out there. Yeah. Now that’s really, that’s really cool. So did you also find using a buyer’s agent? Did you learn a lot? Or was it really just kind of done for you?

Matt 27:01
I am, they were really, really good at educating me, they kind of said, you know, how do you want us to work with you right at the start? Do we would you like us to kind of take you along for the journey and help educate you? Or would you prefer that? You know, do you just want a product? Because we can, we can run the process two separate ways. And I knew that I was going to be in this game for a very long time. And I wanted to pick up everything I could from day one. So yeah, I mean, I kept really pushing back on on Adam and the team and saying, Okay, well, what would you do? You know, if you were in this situation, and it was your property, or your, your investment decision, would you be going down this route? Would you be making that kind of these kinds of decisions? And what would you be looking for? And every single time you just came back with such strong, comfortable answers that, you know, were easy for me to swallow and made me feel much more comfortable with the whole process from start to finish?

Ryan 27:57
Yeah. So you know, when did you purchase that property?

Matt 28:01
We exchanged on the 29th of June 2019. So it was just after the election. And it was kind of a unique time, because a lot of there was a lot of hysteria in the market about whether negative gearing was going to be abolished. But I knew again, long term idea, you know, I knew that negative gearing wasn’t going to be a cornerstone of my investment philosophy going down the line. So I thought, you know, I’ll jump in. And, realistically, we probably took advantage of that market where, you know, there wasn’t a great deal of competition for that property that we actually Well, that’s

Ryan 28:38
it again, I guess a little bit of context, for people out there who weren’t as in tune with things happening back then before the election, it looked like labour was going to get in or there was a high potential that they were going to get in. If they got in there, we’re going to remove the rules that allowed you to offset you know, your negative gearing against your taxable income. And so there was a lot of, I guess, as you said, hysteria or just people fearful in the market around that time, fast forward, you know, the Liberal Party was able to get in and then that led to a surge of confidence in the housing market right after them. So you purchase when everyone else was fearful, basically. And what was the plan with that property was adjust buy it hold it rented out?

Matt 29:23
Yeah. The boys that Pumped on Property, I guess advocates for growth and cash flow at the same time, which I mean, I really do think that that is achievable. It’s just how you I guess package up the particular opportunity that you you know, pursue and you know, the property you eventually get. And that might be just through knowing specifics around zoning laws or size of a lot, you know, minimum lot size to put a second dwelling on a block, which is still going to be in a in a growth location, but you’re able to put a second dwelling on there get to rents, manage your cash flow through This, let’s say 2030 year holding pattern where you’re going to be putting that or holding that property through your portfolio. So they we really spoke very, a lot at the start about what the goals were with this particular property and myself and my future. And at that time I had a very low income was very, I would have been incredibly hamstrung if I got a negatively geared property because I’d be consistently trying to climb out of a, you know, a hole. But having such a, I guess, a low income cash flow did appeal to me. So we purchased a property that needed to be over 600 square meters, so we could put a granny flat in the backyard. Yeah. And that is the the plan still today, we haven’t actually built the granny flat due to a couple of personal things going on. But but that should happen within say the next nine to 12 months. And we’ll have two incomes helping me pay down that debt.

Ryan 30:53
Yeah. And then you’ll be well and truly cashflow positive on that property and the property will be paying for itself. How has it been you purchased nearly 18 months ago now that we’re talking How has that journey of first homeownership been for you?

Matt 31:09
It probably would have rattled most More more recently than not, I have had some tenancy issues, we had the tenants and ended up getting about $1,000 in arrears. And we issued them with a, I guess a notice to leave, which is the not standard procedure for moving someone on who’s who’s not supporting you or paying your rent. in Brisbane, luckily, and thankfully, they’ve, they’ve come around to the table, and they’re, you know, up to date. But on top of that, you know, a couple of days later, I was told that the police were called to the property, and there was a forced entry at the property in midnight. And I mean, it, you know, we got got confident confirmation from the police that they were actually there. And it you know, it was all, as it seemed, but I think it probably speaks to maybe the the tenants that are residing within the property. And, you know, we’re we probably would like to replace them, if possible with someone that that might be able to look after the property and be a bit more consistent in the future. So I mean, first year of ownership, I’ve definitely had some ups and downs,

Ryan 32:24
or first year of ownership, you’ve had tenancy issues you had everything happened with COVID-19. And all that happened around that I guess it’s been a stressful 18 months. What are that? what’s what’s next for you? What What are you looking at for your next property purchase? If any what your long term goals?

Matt 32:41
Yeah, so I think it’s really funny, my my income has slightly changed over over this period. And I think it’s possible that it could grow in the future, which will really change my my philosophy, which is really funny, because I thought that initially, I thought that I had it, you know, buttoned down from day one, it was just a plan, and I just needed to follow it. But I’m realizing that things change in your life. And then of course, your, your direction with your investment decisions slightly changes, it doesn’t necessarily go for 180. But, you know, you might be looking at a certain type of product or a different product based on circumstances that you didn’t think you would be in, say 12 months prior when you made the plan. So something that, you know, I think, if I reflect back to when I was an account, when I was in accounting, which I’ve recently jumped out of I I didn’t necessarily enjoy my job. So I was so hell bent on replacing my income, so that I could you know, get out of that, I guess that job that I didn’t enjoy. Now I’ve moved into something that I’m much more interested in. And

Ryan 33:46
now you’ve moved into becoming a VI’s agent.

Matt 33:48
So you’re working in property, helping people buy property, obviously a bit of a shift from accountant to buyer’s agent. And I mean, I love it. Like I honestly I wake up every day with a smile on my face, because I’m actually leaving my passion, which has completely changed my perception on on what I want in my portfolio. So now I think I’m a little bit more growth focused than say cashflow focused, yes, I still do want to replace my income and be able to have choices in my life. But suddenly, my perception of working until the age of 50 or beyond is actually kind of interesting to me and exciting. So with that backdrop, I think the next plan or the next type of property would be something that supports cash flow wise, but probably has high growth prospects.

Ryan 34:36
Yeah, because I just think that’s really interesting. Because, obviously, the beginning your journey, you’re on this high stress job, that’s low pay, because you’re a graduate accountant, I would imagine that you’re looking at property as an escape. Is that correct at that point in time? 110%. Yeah. So I remember being in that position where you just like, okay, I just want to escape this. I’m going to invest in properties that I can pay for my life and support me. So I can just get out of this and live the life that I want. And that shifts to be like, now I’m in a job that I absolutely love or running a business that I love. I’m helping people every day, it’s pushing me creatively, I’m happy to get up every day and work. It definitely changes your perspective on investing, which I think is important for people to understand. I’m in a similar position to you as like, I love what I do. And I’m super excited to continue doing this. And so for me, it I guess it allows you to take a longer term perspective in property because you’re like, Okay, I want to be financially free as quickly as possible, so I can quit my job. No, I just want to set myself up for the future. Again, as you said, Give yourself choices. And, you know, if I want to keep working into my later years, I can keep doing that things I’m passionate about, but I don’t have to if I don’t want to. And so I can invest in things that I know, in 20 years time are going to be really good for me rather than just saying, okay, in the next three years, I need, you know, I need this.

Matt 36:01
Yeah, yeah. 110%. So, yeah, I mean, cash flow is probably of less importance now. And, and growth would be a higher focus. So maybe looking at something at a higher price point, a bit closer to a, a capital city CBD, I’d probably stick close to I guess those main metrics that a lot of investment market commentators speak about, you know, being close to train stations being close to beaches, or any employment hub, all that kind of stuff.

Ryan 36:33
Yeah. So for you, I guess it’s more like a growth play and building up just going to build up a portfolio over a number of years.

Matt 36:40
Yeah, yeah. So the goal, long term goal is for my partner and I to be able to, on my 50th birthday, which is thankfully still got 24 and a half years away, is to have the choice or have the ability to say, to decide whether we go to work or not. Because our investment portfolio is paying us a salary or passive income, and the value of that property portfolio, we’re looking at achieving $5 million in equity in the portfolio. So I feel comfortable at this point in my life to be holding some debt on the portfolio wouldn’t necessarily have to pay it out, right. And as a result of that would be hoping to achieve about a 5% yield on the total portfolio, which will give us combined $250,000 of passive income.

Ryan 37:29
Yeah, I’d be surprised if it takes you to your 50 to achieve that, to be honest, a go getter, like yourself, someone working in the industry, looking at the property market every single day increasing, focusing on increasing the income, good savings habits, dude, I think you’ll be there well, and truly before you’re 50, well,

Matt 37:47
maybe we should have a podcast when we reach when I reach it.

Ryan 37:50
In a couple of years, I’ll just set the timer. In five years time, we’ll do another interview. But I really I’m really excited for you. And it’s so cool to see that journey from you know, the kid saving is $10 a week to the uni student working multiple jobs to the low income earner purchasing his first property and using someone else to help him to now increase your income and also helping other people do the same thing. So I think this story will be both helpful and inspiring to a lot of people out there. So just thank you so much for sharing it.

Matt 38:24
That’s right. I love having these kinds of conversations. It’s good to reflect I guess, on on where I have been in the past and where I am now and what looks like what the future looks like as well. So yeah, thanks for having me

Ryan 38:34
on, man. Is there any like takeaway you want to leave people with like one big lesson that you learn on the journey up to where you are now that you think I wish I knew that a couple years ago, I wish I knew that along my journey?

Matt 38:48
Maybe Maybe not necessarily, you know, something that I would tell myself at a younger age, because I thought I was, you know, half decent at it. But but to anyone listening, that’s probably trying, you know, unsure, yes, they want to buy a property, but they’re not sure what the path looks like between now and actually achieving that. It’d be putting, like, starting with a plan. For me, it was, it started with my idea of putting $150 away every single week. And that morphed over time into Well, I’ve got to be the cashier, I only need X amount more to actually, you know, purchase a house or in the It all started with. It didn’t doesn’t seem like it. But it was a plan to save $150 a week and pay myself first. Which means you know, as long as you’ve got a plan and you follow the plan, I feel like you can really achieve anything. So that’s cool. So yeah,

Ryan 39:39
I just I love this conversation. It was so good. And I know that so many people out there are going to be listening to this on their morning commute, going into work, whether it’s a job that they love, or don’t love or uni or whatever, and they’re gonna be like, this guy did it. I can do it too. So, yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. I really appreciate you sharing your story. And I think we’re just gonna Leave it there. So I hope that out there listening you were inspired by this. You love this and if you do like it then leave us a thumbs up. Leave us some comments down below if you want more interviews like this one. Thanks so much again to Matt, thanks so much to all you for listening and until next time, stay positive

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