How To Plan For Property Success in 2017

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These simple steps will dramatically increase your chances of achieving your investment goals this year, definitely worth giving a go.

Ryan:    The new year is a great time to sit down and to set some goals for yourself, and in this episode, I’ve got with me Ben Everingham from Pumped On Property, my buyer’s agent of choice. How’s it going, Ben?

Ben:     Great, Ryan. Thanks for having me.

Ryan:    No worries. And in this episode, we want to follow on from our last episode, where we talked about assessing a situation, and we want to get really specific about how to plan for property success in the new year. So just not how to set goals, even though we’ll talk about that, but also some actionable steps that you can take early on in the year to help you achieve property success and achieve your goals in that year. So I’m really excited to talk about this today with you Ben. So in the last episode, we talked about assessing where you’re at now, so that’s assessing how your current property portfolio is performing, what it’s likely to do in the future.

So, if you haven’t watched or listened to that episode, I do suggest you go back and listen to it, because we’re kind of assuming that you’ve taken the step to really assess your situation and understand where you are now. So, if you own properties, that’s really understanding the performance of your current portfolio and where it’s heading, or, if you don’t own properties, that’s like really understanding your situation. How much of a deposit do you have saved? How much money are you able to borrow from lending institutions? Are you in a position to buy, etc? So first step is going to be understanding where you are now, but we have talked about it previously, so go to in order to listen to that episode. The next step, I think, is really getting clear about where you want to move forward for the year, so do you want to start talking about that, Ben?

Ben:     Yeah. I suppose goal setting, you and I have talked about this before, is extremely, extremely important to me. I’m a super goal orientated guy. You mentioned to me before off air that you don’t have New Year’s resolutions anymore.

Ryan:    I used to be huge on New Year’s resolutions. I would have like 10 set out, and it’d be like 1st January it would start, all this extreme habit change and behavior and stuff, and I would maybe last like a week, and then each day I’d lose a thing off the list until there was nothing left, so I kind of just gave up on them, and I’m more like, yeah, I look further into the future and say, “What do I want to experience? Who do I want to be?” And then my goals for the year are associated with that.

Ben:     Do you still set goals at the start of every year?

Ryan:    I do, but my goals are a lot looser now than they used to be.

Ben:     “I may or not achieve this this year, and, if I don’t, it’s okay.”

Ryan:    Yeah. Well, I’m quite ambitious, so I set very large goals for myself, and, often, those goals don’t fit into one year, and I actually set them so big that I don’t know how long they’ll take, and so I have loose timeframes around my goals, but not super specific. How about you?

Ben:     Yeah. I just got back from 10 days in America, and on the way over on the plane I just couldn’t sleep, I think I was too excited to get there or something, and so I sat down and I planned my year. The way that I planned my year wasn’t to just go, “I’m going to do this, this and that,” it was more to go, “Who do I want to be by the end of the year? What type of year would I like to have that would make me be in this position,” which is December when we’re filming this, to look back and just go, “Man, I had a kick arse year. I did some cool stuff with my family. I did some traveling. I hung out with some great people. And, on top of that, I bought another investment property, which is helping me and my family move towards financial independence in a different way. And I achieved some really cool stuff through my business and our community.”

I start with the what would make the year great stuff, and then I start filling in the blanks. I used to, probably the same as you, set 30 ridiculous goals for a year, and just, I don’t know, just be working through every year based on how quickly I get to the next goal and it actually made me really unhappy, because every time I achieved something, it was just achievement of a goal doesn’t actually make you happy, the process-

Ryan:    It’s the striving to achieve it makes you happy, which I’ve realized as I’ve achieved my pinnacle goal, which is a version of financial freedom. And then you realize, “Oh, I’m not just magically happy after I’ve achieved my goal.” It’s like having meaning for goals and going after them is, I think, what makes me and a lot of people happy. But let’s get specific, because we could talk about goal setting all day and life experience, but people are here for the property goodness, so let’s talk specifically about property goals, and how you look at property goals, and how you work through property goals with clients, and what you’ve found success with.

Ben:     Yeah. So let’s pretend that someone on today’s call is looking to create $50,000 per year in passive income within 10 years from now, and there might be people going, “Well, I want to do 100 or 200,” that’s cool, just times whatever I say out by the number of times needed to actually achieve it. There’s all these different thoughts in the property industry, and I find a lot of the information is super complex and complicated for absolutely no reason, and I don’t know if you feel the same way, but it’s like you need to buy a few things and the right things and you’ll achieve it, where you’ve got these people out there going, “You need to buy 10 properties or 20,” or, “You need to develop,” and make it all really complex and really active. But let’s say you want to end up, in 10 years from now, with $50,000 a year in passive income. The straightest path from A to B is to own one million dollars of property, completely outright in 10 years time, with a 5% rent return. 5% times by a million dollars is $50,000 per year. You could buy-

Ryan:    This is obviously a super rough estimate, guys, because we’re not taking into account expenses and stuff, but, yeah, just to give you guys an idea.

Ben:     What you actually need is a million dollars times 6%, and then-

Ryan:    Yeah, probably 6% so you can pay your rental manager, and your council rates and stuff.

Ben:     Yeah. Another good rule of thumb, which I find works is 20% of … You know, if you owned a property outright, you’re going to lose 20% of the rent through, as you said, insurances, water, rates, management, etc, so, yeah, it’s more like 6% on a million dollars, but … Sorry all the number people in today’s bit.

Ryan:    I know. The maths geniuses are just shaking their heads at us going, “This is terrible.”

Ben:     [inaudible 00:06:27] come on, you can’t get that over my eyes.

Ryan:    Anyway, own a bunch of properties outright that you give you rental return. That’s the simplest way to understand a goal.

Ben:     Correct. So, when you’re reverse engineering that backwards and you’re going, okay, basically to get to a million dollars worth of property outright, you probably need to own between 2 and 2.3 to 2.5 million dollars of property within 10 years time, and you need a loan to value ratio of 50%. Basically, if you own two million dollars of property, you want less than a million dollars worth of debt, and so the concept in high level terms is sell half of the properties to pay the other half off outright. There’s so many different ways to get from A to B. You could buy two $500,000 properties in a great market in the next couple of years. Allow those properties to double over the next 10 years. You and I don’t believe it’s going to double every seven to ten years, but you could take actions through renovations, or adding bedrooms and bathrooms, or subdividing to speed up that doubling journey. But, in a very simple way, that’s a quick way to get from A to B.

When I’m thinking about my property goals for the next 12 months, I’m thinking, “What property do I need right now?” And, generally, that means a property with a 4 to 6% rental yield in today’s terms, that is going to grow by at least 5% per year capital growth wise, that I can add 20 to 30% of value to over the next 10 years through doing some things smartly on top of whatever the market does.

Ryan:    Yeah. So I think what Ben’s trying to say through his numbers analysis, is, basically, you need to have your long term vision and your long term goals set. You need to understand how this year fits into that long term goal and vision that you have, and what actions you need to take or properties you need to purchase this year that will move you towards that goal within the right timeframes. So, when you’re sitting down to do your goals for the year, you first need to know, “Okay, what am I aiming for?” Is it a certain amount of income in the next ten years, five years, or whatever it may be? Where are you now? And then, “Okay, how does this year fit into my overarching goal? And what do I need to do to keep me on track towards that long term goal that I’ve set for myself, and what do I need to buy?” And by having that goal in place by having that vision of, “I know if I purchase this type of property, it’s going to move me towards my goal.”

It’s so much easier to be focused on that one thing. You know what you’re looking for. You’re on with a purpose, you’re not just browsing around every property. You’re not getting swayed by seminars or books that you read, because you know, “All I need to do for this year, is particular action or purchase this type of property,” and it’s going to move you forward. It cuts out so much of the fluff and the distractions that we don’t need, and just actually helps simplify it enough to take action to move you forward.

Ben:     Yeah, that’s a great way to put it, and understanding where you sit in your current journey. There’s an accumulation phase, and then there’s a consolidation or debt reduction phase, and then there’s, I suppose, the enjoyment of the passive income at the end phase. So understanding where you sit in that journey, just because you might be out of accumulation. I talk to clients all the time that already own four, six, ten properties. They’re well on their way to achieving what it is that they’re looking to achieve. They come to me and say, “We want to buy again,” and I actually say, “Why? Why don’t you start actively adding value to these properties to speed up the journey, to set yourself up, to reduce your risk, and then, a couple of years from now, you could sell half of these properties, and you actually already are financially independent, you just didn’t know it,” type thing.

Ryan:    Yeah. That sounds like the conversation I had with you two years ago.

Ben:     I stole that straight from you.

Ryan:    But, yeah, I guess that’s one of the good things about having a consultant like Ben, is that it can help you really see, okay, maybe you don’t need to buy more. Maybe buying more is not the solution. It’s about knowing, “Okay, what’s going to get me towards my goal as quickly and easily and risk free as possible?” Let’s assume that you’ve done this step, and that you know your long term vision, and you know what you need to do this year in order to achieve that.

What are some steps people can take to really get prepped and get ready to actually purchase that property or however many properties it is they want to purchase?

Ben:     I think it’s really important to be honest with yourself and go, “Can I actually afford another property?” So creating a budget for the new year is … I hate that word, but something that’s probably necessary if you’re not earning a million dollars a year. So having that budget and understanding what your expenses are as well as what you can allocate on a week to week basis to a property is important.

The next step is to talk to an awesome bank manager or mortgage broker and actually find out what you can borrow, because you might be looking at properties worth 500k, where, with the changes to APRA in the last 12 months, you can actually only borrow 350, and so it’ll help you define your scope for the next 12 months dramatically.

Ryan:    Yeah, and this ties in with knowing where you want to be and what you need to do to get there. The next step is to speak to a mortgage broker. Understand, “Okay, what can I borrow?” And then go back to say what were your goals for the year? If it was to buy a $500,000 property that got this return, but now you can only 350, well maybe you need to change your strategy and say, “Okay, because I can only borrow 350, I need to buy a property that I can actually manufacture growth out of through renovations or subdivision,” or maybe you need to change your strategy at this point, because you’ve now got a clear view on what you can actually do for the year.

Ben:     Yeah, or maybe it’s a case of you need to just bed it down for six months, save some more money, and not do anything, so that you can leverage back into the right property, as opposed to the right now property, when you’re actually ready to do it, and, sometimes, slowing down to speed up is the thing that most investors with less than five properties actually need to do in a 12 month period as well.

Ryan:    Yeah. And I think a great thing, when you’re talking to mortgage brokers, is not just … Because, most of the time, they will just say, “Here’s what you can borrow,” but it’s so good to go in and to say, “Okay, well, actually, I would like to be in position to borrow more. What do I need to do? What do I need to have on paper? What do banks and lenders need to see in order for me to be able to borrow more?” And, often, a mortgage broker can tell you, you need to do these things, you need to, maybe, have a higher income, or less expenses, or get rid of some credit cards, or something like that. There’s so many different steps that you can take. Obviously, I can’t advise on that, but, yeah, the mortgage broker can advise you on what you need to do, so then you can start working towards that.

Ben:     And we both see that all the time. Someone goes and asks for some money, the mortgage broker says no, and then instead of asking, “Well, how can I get access to that money,” or, “Is there another lender in the marketplace? What options do I have?” People just walk away and then forget about stuff, and another year’s gone and they’re further away from financial independence. So asking that hard but right question is definitely super important, especially with brokers, because most of them won’t go, “Here’s a solution.” They’re just looking for the next easy sale as well.

Ryan:    Yeah, well, mortgage brokers only get paid when they generate a loan, or sell a loan, create a loan, whatever they call it when they actually make a sale, so, if you’re not going to get a loan, then they’re like, “Well, I’m not going to make any money from you,” but they’re generally more than happy to sit down and to answer your questions, because you could be business for them in the future, and so, well, I thought it was just basic to just ask those questions, but it turns out not many people do, so it’s good to let you guys know.

Definitely be asking those questions. Yeah, if you go to a mortgage broker, if you are ready to buy as well, getting pre-approval can be a great step, because then you’re just so much closer to being able to actually purchase a property.

Ben:     Yeah, being pre-approval does a lot of things, and in a year like the next couple of years, which are going to be a little bit tougher with all sorts of lending requirements, the biggest fear a real estate agent has is a loan falling, like someone pulling out of a transaction or settlement due to finance, and so, if you can go forward with confidence, show the agent that you are very serious because you’ve got a pre-approval in place.

All the time we save anywhere between 10 and 30 thousand dollars, because our client has a pre-approval, as opposed to a higher offer without a pre-approval that could fall over, so agents really value that stuff, and it can actually be a negotiating tool, especially in tougher years like we’re going into now.

Ryan:    Yeah, and so that’s really important. We were talking before this episode, and you were saying gathering your team of advisors at the start of the year is important as well. Do you want to talk more about how you do that?

Ben:     Yeah. I think it’s important to have the right people around you if you are looking to actually achieve financial independence. That probably means a good mortgage broker, a building and pest inspector, a solicitor, probably a tax depreciation specialist, and probably an accountant as an absolute minimum. Finding those people can be challenging, but there’s awesome things online, like the property chat groups and forums, for example, where people have had real world experience. As long as the person jumping on and going, “This company’s great,” isn’t actually working for that company. Sometimes those people-

Ryan:    Sometimes, you see people jump on and it’s like the first post that person’s ever done, and they only ever do one post, and they’re in to say how good … “Oh, yeah, I really recommend this place,” and it’s all just fake. So, yeah, just be careful that it’s real people talking.

Ben:     I’m a big person on referrals, so I would generally find someone that’s already where you want to be, another investor, and say, you’ve been there, you’ve done it. Generally, I’ve had four accountants, nine mortgage brokers, three solicitors.

I’ve had to go through the pain of all those people. If someone were to ask me who I use, I can say with confidence that they’re pretty good. They’re not perfect, but they’re pretty good. Asking someone that’s been there and done it might be a really good way to build that team quickly, rather than you shopping Google, not really understanding what you get until it’s too late as well.

Ryan:    Yeah, and having those advisors in place, it’s going to allow you to move forward so much faster.

Ben:     Yeah, and if you don’t have them when you find a great property, it’s relatively easy to pick them up during that settlement process as well.

Ryan:    Yeah, it’s a good thing to do. It’s not like absolutely necessary to move forward, but it’s a great thing to get in place to help you. Also, I think, after you’ve done that, you know how much you could borrow, you’ve got your team in place, would be really getting down to the nitty gritty.

Doing your research, identifying the areas, identifying the suburbs that you think are going to be good investments for your strategy and really getting to know those suburbs. Me and Ben both advise doing in depth research into different suburbs, looking at everything from capital growth rates, to vacancy rates, to population growths and stuff in the area. There’s so many different things to look at, but I think it’s really important to identify early where you want to invest and what suburbs, and really narrow it down for yourself. Then you can spend your time during the year, your time on looking at properties in that suburb until the right opportunity comes up for you.

Ben:     Absolutely, that research is fundamental. Do you still have that short course that you created, which helps people do that? Or is that something that you-

Ryan:    Yeah. For members of mine, I’ve got a course called Events Suburb Research, where I go through like 20 different things and how to research them. I think almost everything you can find for free, but my membership is paid, but just go to, and you can become a member to get access to that, if you want in depth how to do suburb research, well, me and Ben have talked about it previous episodes as well, if you want to go ahead and check them out. I think so many people, just think, “Oh, I’m going to look at the entire market, and see what pops up,” but you can spend so much time on

You can waste your entire life on there. Often when you’re looking … That’s again why we went back to know what you want to be, know what you need to buy to move you towards your goal, otherwise, you’ll just get distracted on all these rabbit holes of opportunity and not end up actually doing anything.

Choosing your suburbs, researching the heck out of them, knowing that they’re good, and just keeping a laser focus on those suburbs, and you’ll see crazy opportunities that you never thought possible.

Ben:     Yeah, if you actually back yourself and your research, and, like you said, if you were to go to your course, for example, or have a meaningful conversation, you can find out what those indicators are. Once you actually drill it down to one or two suburbs that you focus on, that’s when the opportunities start coming up. For example, there a couple of suburbs in Brizzy, right now, about 7ks from the city, where you can buy a 3 bedroom home on a 600 square meter block for 500k.

You can put 120 grand into a reno, and they’re passing in at auction for $920,000. There is so much opportunity, but, you’ve got people looking at Brisbane as a whole, and not reducing it down to that suburb, and so those active investors that are looking for an opportunity are looking too broadly to know that that opportunity exists. And every suburb in Australia that you drill down to, which is the 1% of suburbs that you teach people to find, that there’s some serious opportunities, if you know where to look right now.

Ryan:    Yeah, that’s what I like so much about your buyer’s agency as well, is that you identify particular suburbs that you think are good and that you are happy to work with your investors in. If they want to do something else, you’re like, “Well, sorry, we can’t work together,” but then you’re looking at those suburbs, and you’re inspecting almost every property in those suburbs. All the agents in those suburbs, you know when something’s good.

I remember coming to your office, and you were like, “Dude, this deal is so good,” and showing the details to me. You just don’t get that if you’re looking at all of Australia. You don’t understand, what differentiates the one particular property from everyone else in the suburb if you don’t know that suburb in detail.

Ben:     Absolutely, and if you don’t know it in detail, you’re just going to pay market value, and you’re just going to buy the average suburb that gets the average performance, and you’re just going to buy the property that’s sort of set and forget, but, if you want to be a bit more active, which you and I encourage for some people that are at the right stage, man, there’s some serious cash to made around at the moment.

Ryan:    Yeah, and so identifying that’s really key. Let’s say we’ve identified that, what are some other things that people should do once they’ve identified their suburbs and researched it a lot?

Ben:     That’s a nice way of putting it. I thought you were going to swear for a moment.

Ryan:    Yeah. Child friendly.

Ben:     Cool. So you mean, once I know everything there is about the suburb, what’s the next step from there?

Ryan:    Yeah, how can we get prepped to building relationships with real estate agents and stuff like that?

Ben:     I’m a ‘if I can do something once’ type of guy, you might challenge this. You definitely will challenge this actually, but in my business, if I can do something once type of guy, I’ll generally set it up to be semi-automated so that most of the stuff that I need is coming to me, which means, when you’ve identified the suburb, definitely set up your alerts on Domain and, which is super easy to do for the property type you are looking for, so that, on a daily basis, those emails are coming in and you don’t have to be or Domain every day.

Ryan:    Yeah.

Ben:     And then jumping on something, like OpenAgent or to punch in the suburb, and then to find out the top three preforming agents in the suburb that are selling 95% of the property. Physically, give those guys a call and an email, and say, “This is …” People feel like they should hide information or protect it in a real estate for some reason.

The agent can’t find what you want if you don’t tell them what it is that you want, and so, even if you want to buy a 50 grand below market value and you tell them that, at some point in the next six months, something is going to come up, a divorcee, an out of area agent, something is going to come up that ticks that box, and so, if they know exactly what you want, and the more specific you can be with them the better. Tell them what it is you need and then follow them up.

They’re going to forget about you because they are just trying to get on with their job as well, but, if you touch base with them once a week, sooner or later they’re either going to tell you to rack off and it’s not the right type of property that they find, or they are just going to find the property for you by either door knocking or something comes up that’s perfect, and that will be your opportunity to jump into it.

You’re going to have to jump onto it quick, but, because you’ve done the research, because you know what you want, because you know the market so well, you can move in a day or two, because you know it’s right opportunity and you’ve spent months and months researching it and making sure that it is.

Ryan:    Yeah, and that’s, I guess, what we wanted. That is like, if I could bottle that up, I would, but that’s like the essence of what we wanted to get out with this episode, and planning for success in the new year is getting yourself to a point and a position where you know enough, and you’ve researched enough, and you’ve got your pre-approvals in place, that when that opportunity does come, all it is is a matter of jumping on it and making it happen. We’re doing everything early to really set ourselves up, so that when the right opportunity comes, click your fingers and it’s done.

It’s not going to be that easy, obviously, but rather than us fumbling our way through the year, maybe buying a property, but probably not, because there’s other things in life, getting ready, getting prepped, getting everything, all your ducks in a row, so that when the thing does come it’s just like, “Yeah I know that that fits with my long term vision. I know that fits with my goals for the year. I’ve chosen the suburb. I’ve got preapproval.”

You’ve got everything in place, so you build your relationships with the agents, and so when it comes along, you’re like, “Yeah, there’s my property for the year,” tick done, move on with your life.

Ben:     And don’t stress about buying another one. Don’t overdo it. It’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. This is the thing sometimes, that I just think, yeah the prep’s uncomfortable, yeah, it’s activity outside of work and family time and training time that you have to commit, but, if you do the preparation, identify one suburb, brief the agents, as you said, set up the alerts, it can become a hell of a lot easier.

And then what’s more uncomfortable for me is arriving 10 years from now in a position that I don’t really want to be in. And for the people that don’t prep, that don’t set goals, that don’t review, you are going to arrive somewhere, it’s just not going to be where you wanted to be, and you’ll be like the 90% of other people in Australia that never achieve financial independence, when, it’s a super easy thing to do.

The more people I talk to, at least 500 people that I’ve talked to this year are financially independent through property. It’s so simple, but it’s not going to happen in three years unless you are extremely active. It might take 10 to 15, and 10 to 15 years is completely acceptable as well.

Ryan:    Yeah, well that’s the thing. Let’s say you’re 40 and it’s going to take you even 15 years. Finish at 55, what’s retirement age these days, like 67? That’s twelve years ahead of retirement age, and that’s a lot of years.

Ben:     A lot of good years. My dad’s like fit as hell for that age, you know what I mean?

Ryan:    Yeah, I used to hate it, because I used to work in pharmacy, and I swear 90% of pharmacists just hate their jobs, because they’re just putting stickers on boxes most of the day, but I remember I had this moment working … I was just a sales assistant in a pharmacists, this was years ago, talking to the pharmacist about how she hates her job. I’m like, “Why don’t you go and do something different?” Because I had my internet marketing stuff on the side and doing church stuff.

She was like, “Oh, I’ve only got another 10 years left and then I’m retiring.” I’m like, “10 years. 10 years.” And I’m like,”That’s 10 years of life that you’ve got left that you’re going to sit in a job that you don’t like.” I think, yeah, even if it’s going to take you longer than you might like, you’re still going to get a lot of years and, yeah, an opportunity to make the most of them.

Ben:     Do you know what’s cool about this stuff too, when you do it right? And I know a lot of people that listening to this are already going to be well on their way, and there are some other people are just getting started, but momentum builds momentum, and it’s super exciting to get that property under your belt before the first half of the year and go, “I’m done. I’m just kicking back, I’m relaxing. I’m enjoying the rest of the year, because the major thing that I needed to do to set my future up is now done. I can just chill.” Or maybe you can’t do it in the first half of the year, because you’ve got to save some more money, or you’ve got to increase your income or whatever else. You’ve got to get rid of some bad debt. Enjoy the first half of the year knowing you’re already doing what you need to be doing, and then when the time comes to buy a property, have some fun with it and move on.

Ryan:    Yeah, well the great thing as well, with all of the stuff that we’re prepping for, the pre-approval, the suburb research, and stuff like that, you may actually find more than one opportunity comes across your doorstep. You buy one, and you’re not really intending to buy another one, but you’ve done all the research, your confident in the areas, and real estate agent’s like, “Hey, I’ve got another property.” And you’re like, “Well, shivers, that fits with my goal. Maybe I should stretch and do it.” It’s just like, “Oh, yeah, all right, I’ll do that.”

Ben:     [inaudible 00:28:09].

Ryan:    Pardon?

Ben:     Then you can take next year off, so all good. Yeah, and, look, that actually just happened while I was in the States. I got a call from Crystal, my second in charge in our business and my sister. She’s like, “I found this property, it’s way too good to pass up, I put an offer in for you, you’re buying it.” I’m [inaudible 00:28:28]. I’m like, “I don’t want to buy anymore property at the moment,” but it’s an awesome deal, it’s going to make some good money on the way, and good future potential for both capital growth and cash flow.

Another property, or another link in the chain, to get to where we want to be in long term. So, sometimes, something comes up, and, if you’re in a position and you’re open to achieving your goals, then when the opportunity does come up and it’s too good to pass on, sometimes, you have to get a bit uncomfortable and just move on it.

Ryan:    Yeah, and so, I think we can probably leave it there, right? Is there anything else that we need to cover to plan and prepare for property success this year?

Ben:     No, I think that’s a good starting point.

Ryan:    Yeah. And, guys, if you need help with this, because, obviously, it can be tricky to do. If you need help saying, “What should I create in my property plan? What sort of things should I be looking at?” If you need someone to sit down with you and talk through that, then Ben does offer a free strategy session. If you go to, you can see what those sessions are all about, and you can book a time with Ben if it suits you, and you guys can start the year off right. Ben will help you really understand.

He’ll find out what your goals are, and show you some ways that you can achieve it, and then, obviously, if it’s a good fit, you can actually work with Ben and he will help you achieve those goals as well. If you guys are interested in that, go to, but, yeah, I think I’m really happy with how this episode went. I feel like we got it. Sometimes, we record and we have these messages to get across, and I feel like it doesn’t quite happen right, but I feel like this one was a good one.

Ben:     What’s funny is we started off good, but we weren’t recording it the first time we tried to do it, and this actually worked out heaps better. I’m stoked with it as well.

Ryan:    Yeah. So I hope that you guys have the absolute best year this year. Whether me and Ben can be a part of it or not, we wish the absolute best. We hope that this is your best year ever, and, until next time, stay positive.

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