Property Investing Should Be Boring, Make Your Life Interesting!

Property investing should be boring and simple allowing you to then focus on making your life extremely interesting and exciting. So instead of mixing up your property investment strategy and taking more risk how can you mix up your life and live a great life?

0:00 – Introduction
0:43 – Reducing property down to it’s simplest form, it’s really simple and boring
1:43 – Doing something different for the sake of difference generally isn’t worth it
3:21 – You’ve got to find the excitement and find the amazing in your life
5:35 – Don’t play against the odds, use the odds in your favour
8:31 – Take the time to get passionate about your life
8:50 – What has enabled Ryan mindset wise to live the life he wants
15:20 – Ben’s personal journey
20:20 – Sometimes happiness is as simple as being present in your life
25:15 – Boring property investing gets you the opportunity to live an interesting life
27:07 – Property investing when done right is super simple and super boring, but it works

Quotes From This Episode:

“Play with the rest of your life, don’t play with your financial life if you want to be financially free sooner”

“Rather than creating chaos in your property investing journey, do the simple, do the safe, do the boring in that. But rather than just doing that and having a boring life, look at what exciting life I can live”

Recommended Videos:

What It Feels Like To Be Financially Free (Ryan’s Experience)

What It Feels Like To Be Financially Free (Ben’s Experience) – DOESN’T EXIST ANYMORE

Transcription:

Ryan 0:00
we’ve just finished hanging out with an awesome client who is doing some amazing things in property purchasing multiple properties building multiple granny flats and we just mean bennett discussing this idea that property investing should be boring and your life should be interesting and something that has happened i guess with ben something that happens with clients as well is the strategy is so simple that it gets boring and so people want to mix it up and try things that are higher risks that generally have less of a return and we want to talk about this idea around okay let’s keep property investing boring yeah and let’s make our lives really interesting

Ben 0:42
because when you reduce property down to its simplest possible form right we know that based on core logics history metro markets do better we know that buying houses does better we know that buying close to the city or walking distance to the beach does better we know that we want cash flow and capital growth we know that we like to make money on the way in if we can and we like to buy at the right time and while that might sound like a heap of stuff it’s actually super simple and rules that 99% of australian property

Ryan 1:15
and once you’re doing that once you have that criteria and you’re doing it it’s just a checkbox it’s really obvious which properties meet that criteria and which properties don’t it’s not exciting because you’re on realestate.com and probably doesn’t meet the criteria you don’t look at it

Ben 1:31
like we’re having lunch with a client today who is an absolute legend and he was kind of like you know i don’t know if i want to buy another property in this area because i don’t want to put all my eggs in the one basket and what i was hearing in my brain is he’s kind of done these he knows how to do this he wants to do something different for the sake of difference and i sort of made the analogy knowing what you know now would you have bought two properties on the beach in sydney 15 years ago in the same suburb or one property on the beach in sydney and one property in the blue mountains you know what i mean like you know we know what’s worked and the thing about rinsing and repeating it is it yes it can increase your risk but it can also like warren buffett talks about be that circle of preconference that you know what works but it’s boring but it works you know what i mean like play with the rest of your life don’t play with your financial life if you want to be financially free sooner

Ryan 2:28
and i think this is one of the problems that we’re seeing crop up with people is because the two property to financial freedom strategy is so boring it’s like once they’ve done it once or maybe once they’ve done it twice it’s like okay you could go again and do it three or four times which is going to double your income once those properties have paid off you could easily do that it’s a low risk strategy it’s already working for you you can see that

Ben 2:53
i’ve just gone from cherry now i’m going to my third one and you board know i’ve done all the stupid shit in the past you know what i mean i’ve done the developing i’ve done the flipping i’ve done the building have done the renovating i’ve done the housing granny flats but in the wrong market like i want i want financial freedom more than i want variety for my property i’m having to go vanilla right now

Ryan 3:17
and i think this is it is that you’ve got to find the excitement in your life and find the interest in your life and find the non vanilla in your life and

Ben 3:30
five is what if i see you there’s

Ryan 3:35
flavors out there right let’s just say that call dropped right now so yeah a lot of people’s lives are definitely boring we just live the same monotonous lives going to the same job every single day and there’s nothing there’s nothing against that obviously especially when you have children having a stable income and being able to provide for them is super important but often we do get stuck in a rut in our lives where we’re just going through the days going through the motions and nothing really exciting is happening in life and so the most exciting thing in our life is our property investments and if they’re boring it’s i can’t win now i’ve got nothing exciting left so let’s mix this up and create some chaos and so i guess what we’re proposing is that rather than creating chaos in your property investment journey do the simple do the safe do the strategic do the boring in that but then actually rather than just doing that and also having a boring life do that and think okay i’m getting the lifestyle from this what kind of exciting life can i live what kind of exciting things

Ben 4:44
can i be doing and i want to talk through that in a minute because you and i feel like we’ve been experimenting in our lifestyle designs for the last five years ever since we’ve known each other i’ve been

Ryan 4:54
experimenting in my life since i was a teenager basically always has been countercultural in the life that

Ben 5:02
i live and you’ve helped me get the confidence to do different stuff in my life as well which is opened up you know my day to day life so that it doesn’t feel like i’m even though i’m on in the same very consistent life day to day it certainly doesn’t feel like that now you know i just i just feel like one thing before we talk about that because like your journey is amazing man and i think like educating people on some of this stuff it’s enabled you to live like a countercultural sort of lifestyle and actually still make it work financially yeah is just people are smart enough to know that when you go into casino you don’t be the house long term that’s why they have high roller tables that’s why they have bottle service that’s why they have free accommodation for high rollers because they know if they stay there for long enough even though they might win the night they’ll win the week yeah and it’s the same with property right like there are very very simple rules that if you play them you will you know the house will win and you’re the house you’re the house okay but if you don’t listen to some of these little things that are based on historical evidence of you know forward projecting based on demographics and it can be really really easy to come unstuck and i think a lot of people make those little decisions you know expecting the one that will think you know if i if i had a coin for every time someone said to me in the last five years my position is really unique and different i would have six or $7,000 right now you know what i mean like it’s just yeah i don’t even know where i’m going with that i just want people to recognize that like you know trust me from making all the mistakes that i’ve made if i had have had this strategy then and just the plot it i’d be in such a better financial position right now than i am because

Ryan 6:53
i wonder how many properties you would own if you had the two property to financial freedom strategy when you started years ago how many properties with granny flats you would have how many would be paid off

Ben 7:05
if i realistically think back about all this stuff i would have three houses with three granny flats in sydney right now if i knew this and they would all be owned completely outright from the other activity around that i’ve done yeah and that you know that would be me i’d have 150 grand a year of passive income coming in now you know two and a half million dollars worth of equity and i’d be you know in a different financial position but i got bored like i sold the property in sydney too soon i tried to do this i tried to do that i wanted to be a speculator rob you know when i was working for someone else i wanted to double or triple my income through equity each year and that was the measuring stick rather than quality of life and passive income so you know the cool thing is with you guys watching this is you don’t have to make those mistakes i’ve made you can design this strategy the right way but just know that it is quite a vanilla strategy which will get the result over time yeah but it will take time and it is it is quite repetitive because repetition works

Ryan 8:05
yeah and so i think coming into it understanding that this is a vanilla strategy it’s not a kinky strategy

Ben 8:13
every now and then you can mash in the fray

Ryan 8:17
and you can make it a bit more interesting maybe get some caramel sauce on top like you’re doing with them i feel like i i just steamroll that but yeah when it comes to property investing it is something that we get passionate about it’s something that we love you’re obviously passionate about it as well if you’re following this channel or following ben’s channel but also take the time to get passionate about your life and get passionate about other things in life and make your life interesting make your life desirable make your life different

Ben 8:51
can i ask like a question like how have you been able to do this because you and i both suffered with either bouts of anxiety in my case or even like maybe could be kind of i don’t want to use the word if it’s the wrong one but depression potentially for you

Ryan 9:05
oh i’ve had depression and eating disorders like yeah

Ben 9:08
so i’ve definitely had issues because we’ve had really heavy bouts of suffering we’ve also tried to figure out solutions to that suffering to so what are some of the things that have been able you mindset wise and then in like from your mind going into your life that have enabled you to start living your values and living the life that you want

Ryan 9:27
so i think there’s two big things for me the first is i was is kind of an inherent in who i am in that i don’t you know have most people really care what other people think about them i don’t have that

like i naturally don’t have someone that is like you haven’t really had that i

want people to like me i want to have friends and things like that but where most people have that fear around what will people think of me that is extremely dulled in my experience and so when i’m assessing what to do with my life in a sense situations, the concept of how will I appear to others and what was think of me, doesn’t really come up for me. So in that aspect, I’m very blessed with that, because it allows me to make decisions without that as a hindrance. But I think then that for me allows me to think about things in a different way. And I guess I would bring it back to first principles which Elon Musk talks about, which is breaking things down to their first principles or their core principles of how things are done. So when Ilan Musk, who runs SpaceX and build rockets, first principles for him is looking at, okay, how much does a spaceship cost? It’s extremely expensive. If we actually look at the individual materials in that spaceship, how much of the raw materials that spaceship costs, and it’s just such a tiny fraction of what it was costing to build this spaceship? And so, rather than saying, okay, what’s already been done, how much the spaceships cost to build at the moment? He goes, Okay, how much are raw materials I love? And then what can what can we build from that? And how, like, what can we do from there? So you’re taking it all the way back to the beginning? And just saying, What can I do from that? And then in life, I guess doing that as well. And to say, Okay, what are the base principles of life? What are the base principles of how to earn income? Or how to invest? Or how to do relationships, or what schooling to provide for your children never heard this concept before, and I love it. So rather than saying, Okay, well, everybody is sending the kids to state schools, or to private schools. And so therefore, that’s probably what I should do. And maybe I’ll variant slightly from that being like, Okay, what is going to be the best schooling outcome for my children. And so the best schooling outcome that I see for my children is they need to leave school loving learning. I don’t care if they know, trigonometry, I don’t like give a fuck about that. Why? A lot of the stuff you learn in school is useless. But if you come out of school and love learning, which I did, and I was very fortunate in that, then you can learn anything and be super successful in life. So you want to have a great social experience. You want to love learning. And so it’s like, my children go to a Montessori School, which has mixed age groups, people asked, they do the same curriculum. It’s just done differently. But they ask, Well, how does your child compared to other people of the same age? I’m like, Who cares? Does my kids love learning? Are they progressing in their learning? Yes. Do I feel that they’re at a good spot? Yes. do I care? How my seven year old son is performing to another seven year old? Who lives? You know, somewhere else in Sydney? No, I don’t. Because that ultimately doesn’t matter. are now 31 do I go? Oh, how do I compare to other 31 year olds, in my reading ability, or in my, even my finances, or whatever? So I don’t do that. And so a lot of the things that come back to first principles, you know, with relationships as well, and being like, Okay, well, how are relationships meant to run? And is this like, first principles, what is inherently moral and accurate and correct, and then building off that, and then the same in like business and stuff like that?

Ben 13:13
relationship wise first principle might be, don’t hurt anyone.

Ryan 13:17
Yeah, respect that Rex, respect the people that you will be open and honest, have good communication,

Ben 13:23
and what your remaining, you know, business like, because this is just such a fascinating concept that I’ve actually never heard before. Like, it is just so powerful, I think breaking things down to, and I’ll talk about my version of this in a sec,

Ryan 13:35
you I guess, in business was something I tried to communicate with you five years ago, when we sat down for that coffee before you quit your job or got fired from your job, and he got fired, which was to be like, Okay, look at, look at your business, look at the business structure. And you get to decide in the beginning what kind of business you have. But then ultimately, you need to look at the way that your business affects your psychology. And if you set up a business structure where you incur certain expenses, ultimately, what’s going to happen in the future, is that you need to continue to earn money to pay for those expenses. And so what happens is you go down a path, originally, you’re the designer of your business, and then eventually your business kind of runs you based on the expenses that you have in the model that you’ve set up. And you know, okay, now I need X amount of sales or x revenue, to pay for the overheads that I have in the staff that I have. So thinking about that upfront, which is what I did, and gave up 10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of dollars, especially in the early days to be like no, I’m not going to go down that path where I can make quick money fast, because I know that’s going to lead to overheads and a more difficult business to run. Whereas if I stay the path that I’m on now, I know it’s going to lead to passive income and financial freedom faster, which I eventually got to the age of 28. I was financially free for a couple of years there where I didn’t have to work and so and then working to get back to that now obviously gone through the separation now in a bit of debt and paying that off but eventually we’ll ideally get back to that position within the next couple of years wow

Ben 15:10
that’s so powerful man i just love that concept for me you know like i think i live like almost the opposite like i feel like a lot of my journey up until recently has been around trying to do what other people expect me to do in a way like if i’m really honest with myself on the big table plays out and it it comes from a place where like artists i think i want it to be like accepted in a way and it’s even difficult to talk about that now because sometimes looking in the mirror isn’t the nicest thing to do like from an external perspective if my wife was here she might save it then you know like the reality is you’re just going to sort of do what you want to do and that’s how she sees me but that’s never how i saw myself like i i think i got started in property because i wanted to feel like a sense of i’m in control of my own destiny and i want to be seen especially in the first 123 properties i want it to be seen as an investor i wanted to be seen as a young person doing well i wanted to be seen as successful yeah but then it very very quickly got past the ego to a point where i wanted choices for myself and for my family in the future that i just i looked down the route you know from you know working in literally 60 different jobs from the time i was 13 until now i saw what the life of the labor looks like i saw what the life of lots of different occupations look like and i realized that all of them look good if the if you’ve got a great attitude and you’re present and you’re enjoying your life and living your values yeah but they can look really really bad if you don’t enjoy it as well and so for me a lot of where i’ve got to now has been really about what do i enjoy doing what am i naturally better at than most people what can i persist with for the thing about achieving financial freedom and success financially as you need to do things for a lot longer more consistently repetitively than other people are prepared to do them

Ryan 17:19
for which is what makes the property investing so boring

Ben 17:22
that’s what makes properties so boring is that it takes 15 years 20 years 25 years to pay something off yeah it takes going through good markets where you can make short term money and horror you know bad markets where you lose a lot of money to get to that point as well and so when the goings good the tendency is hyack could sell this and make three educated day but it might cost me and my family a million dollars over the next 30

Ryan 17:47
yeah or it might cost me cost me an income stream because i don’t reinvest that money in an income producing asset i might piss it away on a holiday or something like that

Ben 17:57
it’s so powerful man so like the after going through everything that i’ve gone through the only thing that is actually working for me and you know to an outsider like i just turned 34 a couple of days ago and for my birthday my wife’s like what do you want and i said i want like a mad take up and i want like a strainer and i want these two types of teas one’s a green tea and the second one’s like a white tea yeah white tea has the most any oxidants out of any any food in the world and apparently there’s as much good stuff as 40 oranges in one cup

Ryan 18:32
so this is you making your life exciting this is

Ben 18:35
this is what i’m saying man like why i externally looked for stimulation for my whole life i chased the next goal why i bought the next thing i bought the next property i started the next business i lived in the future you know what when i was single you know i changed that game like as in a family lock have you know done all the things i’m supposed to do family wise like i’ve lived in really shitty places i lived in really beautiful places like i’ve had really shitty cars and nice cars i’ve so what what’s your point my point with that is that nothing external to me now based on my stage of life in terms of like living my values and just talking about how fun boring can be okay is like to me being present is the secret to life when i see people like chasing external or getting excited on the next goal or really like you know expecting something else to make them happy that’s not themselves i’m just like fuck man like you’re so you know it’s kind of like just starting investing it’s fun to like when you’re chasing things expecting them to be making you happy with like a business or anything it’s fun like happiness is fleeting and for me now like i’m kinda like just it’s weird man like i’m just i just want to drink my tea i want to do my yoga i want to help really good people My business, I want to do stuff that’s meaningful. And I want to be fully engaged in every present moment that I’m in. Yeah, as opposed to putting all of my hopes. And that where I’m coming back to with this is, that’s fuckin really boring to most people, because most people are waiting for the next to the next.

Ryan 20:17
But what you’re saying is that for you making your life not boring is just a matter of being present in your life. Being appreciative of what you do have for staying focused on it, not looking at the next thing and desiring that trip or design that holiday or the next property or the next, whatever trinket, but just being present in your team drinking and in your life, dropping the kids off at school, but actually not just going through that monotonous stuff, not just Okay, I got to get the kids dressed and take the kids to school. Yes, I drink my tea and drink my tea.

Ben 20:52
Like, it’s not like a routine. It’s more like, Man, I’m fucking love sitting on the balcony in the morning watching the birds and like watching my kids run around and chatting with my wife about stupid stuff, or pulling our hair out because the kids are being a nightmare. But still just being there.

Ryan 21:09
Like being present. I think that’s something I need to work on more, because there’s certain elements of my life where I am very present. And there’s certain elements that most

Ben 21:18
present people that I’ve ever met from start to finish. I think just Lately, I’ve been extremely

Ryan 21:23
overwhelmed from all the change that happened in my life. And then like me and Cal have the kids 5050 now and so then not saying, Oh, it’s tricky being like a single dad with three kids, obviously, I only do it half the time or kill has them about 60%. I’ve got him about 40 at the moment. But being in that position, and being like, she used to do a lot of the stuff and still does. And she’s an amazing mom, and having to learn all of that. And cool. And being overwhelmed. I think I’ve definitely lost my presence. A lot of businesses and and running businesses and paying off debt and just being you know, it’s kind of been very intense and overwhelming. I think I needed to get some of that team to me,

Ben 22:06
I’m getting take that deep breath. You know, and this is the weird thing, man, because we talked about this on camera a few years ago, remember, we both hit that same point where you were financially free. And my property portfolio and businesses were significantly further ahead at that point than I expected them to be. And we’re both just like, Fuck, we’ve really achieved it, I got depressed and I got anxious. And then we sort of slowly figured it out. And then because things got you know, simpler but harder again in different ways. It’s like, what I’m what I’m trying to say this without coming across like an asshole is like a lot just on a on a different path than my next stage of my life and the thought of, you know, the thought of buying and unrenovated property below market value in the right market, renovating it. And then building a really trendy cool little granny flat out in the back is, is really exciting to me. Like, it might not be the other people but to me like that is freakin my passion. Like I just I can’t wait to do that again. Yeah, but I’m not going to go out and do subdivisions. Now I’m not going to buy the piece of land and build the single income properties that I’m hoping to speculate on. I’m not going to chase the next place that might work because the report told me in my head, like I’m just, and it’s boring, but sometimes boring. As you said, when you’ve got a life that you enjoy, like your life is so different right now. And I know you’re getting so much happiness out of the things that you’re getting to do. And same with me in a completely different way. And it’s kind of like, that’s an active choice. Like I spent about six hours googling, fighting on the weekend fighting because I’ve always wanted to do a martial art. Yeah. And so like I do anything, I looked at all the different styles. What’s the most effective? Like probably the Elon Musk’s way and then went What am I going to enjoy slash What can a 34 year old start that’s completely uncoordinated and have fun doing fitness where I’m not gonna walk home.

Ryan 24:13
Guess jujitsu

Ben 24:15
on because I I still like I still like to stand up. I still like striking. Luckily for my mates do jujitsu because that has a

Ryan 24:22
level of that’s I think what I would lean towards just because of the way the way training is done is very competition base. Yes, I think would work with me.

Ben 24:31
So I chose boxing. And I’ve gone like I’ve looked at all the dudes on the coast and I found this young guy that’s just about to turn pro that since the time he was like seven has won every single competition state nationally and internationally. You can who’s an amateur and he’s going to be my Boxing Day. I’ll do three sessions a week with him and I’m just like, that’s to me. Like it’s just like that’s a whole nother craft. That’s the cool thing about working towards financial freedom is you get Yeah, have time to fuck around and look at tase, like, I have time to like sit on the balcony in the morning without like rushing around to commute or doing Pilates or training with my friends when I want to.

Ryan 25:13
And I think that’s what the boring property investment strategy gets you is it gets you the flexibility to explore those things

Ben 25:20
and get you 2030 years faster than everyone else. So that your life becomes a pick your own adventure.

Ryan 25:26
Yeah. And then you can focus on your life being interesting, because you’ve got that set aside, either ticking away in the background, or you’ve achieved it. So now you can go ahead and do interesting things.

Ben 25:37
I haven’t achieved financial freedom to to where I want to right now. I just I had even having a plane that’s gonna get me there is enough. Yeah, he signed with you like you’ve got a plan for your business and property that will both get you there over the next 15 years. Same as me, I just have to do it. We just both have to do it. And, you know, now that now that I don’t, I used to think I had to get there to be happy. Now I’m just on the journey that will take me 15 years. Cool. Now Now, what can we do? Let’s have fun for the next 15 years and explore all this stuff like yeah, and I’m not saying I don’t want to live in nice homes. I’m not saying I don’t want to do cool investment projects. I’m not saying that I’m not going to travel like, well, we’re going to the caravan today. Like I’m just, I’m excited for all of it. And

Ryan 26:22
you’re making your life interesting, you’re not just adding risk to your property investment strategy. Just because you’re bored with your property investment strategy. you’re investing in a boring way, doing a low risk strategy that you know, works that you’ve proven in the past that’s working your portfolio that’s giving you cash flow, and then you’re focusing on drinking tea, making your life more interesting. And then my

Ben 26:46
like, 20 year old self is kicking my ass right now.

You’re on such a good pod.

We were like thinking minds, like Dude, you should be doing more.

Ryan 27:00
And so I think I think that’s what we want to get across today is property investing, when done right is often incredibly boring, super simple, just super simple. You have to find what’s interesting in it. And for the average investor, I guess that low risk strategy is more boring. Obviously, for people who are more advanced during development and things like that. It can be very interesting and creative and difficult and have its own challenges. But for the majority people out there just looking for a good set of properties that give them good cash flow, give them baseline financial freedom, the journey is going to be boring. And once you push to the properties, paying them off, it’s going to be boring. But if you can focus on making your life amazing focus on making your relationships interesting and amazing and sowing into them and focus on doing your best work at work or in your business or at your church or wherever you volunteer or sports club or whatever it is that you’re passionate about speed running community who’s drinking club for six year old women that also have been in

Ben 28:09
these classes 18 year olds in me Yeah.

Ryan 28:12
So whatever it may be, that you’re passionate about, go out there, live an awesome life, bring your best and most true self to the world. explore those things have a lot of fun with it. And yeah, don’t I guess increase your risk just because you’re bored and you think that property is the best way to make your life exciting. If If you can have boring property investing that can fund your exciting life, then you get into in a good spot.

Ben 28:36
I love that dude, I love how you disrupt that out. Okay, so

Ryan 28:38
I hope that you have enjoyed this more rambley episode with us talking about this sort of lifestyle stuff. What I’m going to do is link up to two videos that mean bended one each on what it feels like to be financially free. So we both talked on each of our channels about what it feels like to be financially free. So I’ll link up to those, go ahead and check them out so you can see what it’s like. We hope that this has inspired you today to go out there and live your best life and until next time, stay positive

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